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Post #1
 23rd September 2011 - 06:01 PM
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Ok i own an r32 gts4 4 door and, well i got over the 20 prrreeetttyyy quickly and thanks to the old girl and my missus buying me an rb30 for my birthday, and buying a rb25de head i'm getting rid of the old 2ltr as much as it has been reliable and fun. Few question i have though upon doing my own research and not finding a consistent answer to any of my questions through VARIOUS workshops, magazines and other forums, google, altavista, bing, google chrome, blah blah etc etc i have decided to open this topic to see what more information i can get together. 1st Q: RB26 cams we all know and love em, BUT will they fit into an rb25de head???... I know i can go tomei poncams, hks, crow cams etc etc, but i have to maintain SOME normality in this car as it does carry children....sometimes, rarely though but sometimes. and being that rb25de cams have not much better specs than '20 cams i'm going to ditch them, and go with '26's and cause i can and want to, i think... 2nd Q: WILL a gtr flywheel, clutch and pressure plate albeit they will all go together, will the flywheel fit the rb30 crank??? 3rd Q: has anyone fit the oil squirters to the 30 block and if so how much did it cost?? YES i know you can ceramic coat the crown etc etc but i want oil squirters i know they can be done via drilling and tapping but as the top questions poses i would like to know who has done it and the cost, why, cause i can. 4th Q: I am going to have to hook up a Q45 AFM already have 300zx afm for increased power, BUT is it really worth it?? or should i just go with power Fc de jetro??? 5th Q: who makes 40thou' oversize pistons that i can get in oz??? or if needed can rb26 pistons fit due to the head change and the stroke length yes in know '25, '26 and '30 pistons are all 86mm from factory but i am trying to consider comp ratio?? 6th Q: what do i need to do to obtain/maintain an 8.5:1 compression ratio??? This engine would be looking at around 5-600hp at the engine which would be around 450 to 520 hp at the wheels MAX on high boost and maybe if i want 350 hp on low boost. the way i see it is if an rb26 in stock form can make 300kw at all four in near stock form then i can do it here to with a little ingenuity. it has the following supporting mods atm cold air intake (inclosed pod), 300zx afm, R32GTR gearbox, Bosch 040 600hp in-tank pump, HDI fmic, gtr injectors with impedance restrictor(already on the rb20), chipped rb20 ecu, t04, top mount and 38mm external gate, hks style cam gears, high po valve springs, n1 water pump, nitto oil pump, trip core rad, clutch fan (keeping). AND would like a very sexy sounding nismo exhaust but it's got a straight through 3inch iteam instead that is going for a nismo sexy sounding one mmmmmm. Ok so shoot gimme ya ideas and thoughts and knowledge PLEASE. I also apologise if this may seem a little to straight forward in the typing but i'm over rude f*cks. |
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gutless
Post #2
QUOTE (Slideways_master @ Sep 24 2011, 12:01 PM)  Ok i own an r32 gts4 4 door and, well i got over the 20 prrreeetttyyy quickly and thanks to the old girl and my missus buying me an rb30 for my birthday, and buying a rb25de head i'm getting rid of the old 2ltr as much as it has been reliable and fun. Few question i have though upon doing my own research and not finding a consistent answer to any of my questions through VARIOUS workshops, magazines and other forums, google, altavista, bing, google chrome, blah blah etc etc i have decided to open this topic to see what more information i can get together. All you could ever need for all your information is SAU 1st Q: RB26 cams we all know and love em, BUT will they fit into an rb25de head???... I know i can go tomei poncams, hks, crow cams etc etc, but i have to maintain SOME normality in this car as it does carry children....sometimes, rarely though but sometimes. and being that rb25de cams have not much better specs than '20 cams i'm going to ditch them, and go with '26's and cause i can and want to, i think... Is the head an RB25DE from an R32(non-VCT),R33 or R34 Skyline? R32 RB25DE head is a shit head compared(AFAIK). I would bother Using an RB25DET head and Retain VCT(but really my choice is using a 26 head anyway). 2nd Q: WILL a gtr flywheel, clutch and pressure plate albeit they will all go together, will the flywheel fit the rb30 crank??? Post this whole topic on SAU 3rd Q: has anyone fit the oil squirters to the 30 block and if so how much did it cost?? YES i know you can ceramic coat the crown etc etc but i want oil squirters i know they can be done via drilling and tapping but as the top questions poses i would like to know who has done it and the cost, why, cause i can. Can be done but i am told it needs custom tools and not all RB30 Blocks can be used. 4th Q: I am going to have to hook up a Q45 AFM already have 300zx afm for increased power, BUT is it really worth it?? or should i just go with power Fc de jetro??? Power Fc is getting very old and outdated(not to mention police know the controller AFAIK). Use a Respected Tuner that uses a Respected newer ECU. 5th Q: who makes 40thou' oversize pistons that i can get in oz??? or if needed can rb26 pistons fit due to the head change and the stroke length yes in know '25, '26 and '30 pistons are all 86mm from factory but i am trying to consider comp ratio?? They all make 40thou but why do you need 40? You only go 40 if you have already gone 20 because once you fuck out on 40 its bin time(AFAIK). 6th Q: what do i need to do to obtain/maintain an 8.5:1 compression ratio??? SAU This engine would be looking at around 5-600hp at the engine which would be around 450 to 520 hp at the wheels MAX on high boost and maybe if i want 350 hp on low boost. the way i see it is if an rb26 in stock form can make 300kw at all four in near stock form then i can do it here to with a little ingenuity. it has the following supporting mods atm cold air intake (inclosed pod), 300zx afm, R32GTR gearbox, Bosch 040 600hp in-tank pump, HDI fmic, gtr injectors with impedance restrictor(already on the rb20), chipped rb20 ecu, t04, top mount and 38mm external gate, hks style cam gears, high po valve springs, n1 water pump, nitto oil pump, trip core rad, clutch fan (keeping). AND would like a very sexy sounding nismo exhaust but it's got a straight through 3inch iteam instead that is going for a nismo sexy sounding one mmmmmm. Ok so shoot gimme ya ideas and thoughts and knowledge PLEASE. I also apologise if this may seem a little to straight forward in the typing but i'm over rude f*cks. |
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Slideways_master
Post #3
thanks for the info, re: head- reason i went for rb25de head was simplicity to go into r32 as i don't have to worry about wiring and sensor with det head, agreed flow would be better and also agreed that i would LOVE a 26 head but one step at a time for finances, and considering the valves are actually the same in the '25de head as '26 head the only thing i would do is a bit of a port, and she will flow good. |
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NTG78
Post #4
OP have you taken into consideration that the RB30's are taller than the RB20/25/26 blocks for under bonnet clearance (if your not going a front face plenum/intake I have heard a ceffy cross member will work but not 100% sure on this) ? ... and to retain the same compression ratio isn't going to be hard ... if you do go ahead with the 30 block and need a head gasket hit me with a PM as I have 1 here that I never used that was intended for a side mount s/c on my old R31 (ended up a cheaper option to go rb20det conversion at the time) |
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Slideways_master
Post #5
yes intake is going to be JUN style and yeah i'm highly aware about the block height and the possibility of it fouling as i did build a 30/26 for a mate in his 33gtr but seeing as i'm using a different head, different car, and different budget, and different info i have to chase this up and make sure i do it right the first time. |
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09ONE
Post #6
Have you looked into oil restrictors for the head and external oil drain backs from the head? Forget about the oil squirters, I wanted to do them as well but its really not needed and quite hard to do and requires a lot of work for very little gain. I had 3 RB30 blocks none of which could be modified for oil squirters. The casting process for making the RB30 blocks was not overly precise and the oil gallery that needs to be tapped for the squirters can't be done. |
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Slideways_master
Post #8
yeah going to go greddy restrictors down to 1mm and the head is a non vct item, so i would need what a 4inch?? and maybe a 45 50mm external gate?? option?? the turbo is a Brazilian master turbo item with t4 flange and is rated to an equivalent t04e capable of 5-600hp output. unfortunately its a thrust bearing but it is what it is and it was free and new. speaking of which the dump is a 4 inch item... ok so with the oil squirters, i would be better off ceramic coating the pistons?? and adding to that the exhaust manifold dump and heat wrap the exhaust manifold on top for added heat restriction and add in an oil cooler for the engine being that double insulated turbo manifold is going to raise oil temp..?? |
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Rancher
Post #9
QUOTE (Slideways_master @ Sep 25 2011, 04:18 PM) yeah going to go greddy restrictors down to 1mm and the head is a non vct item, so i would need what a 4inch?? and maybe a 45 50mm external gate?? option?? the turbo is a Brazilian master turbo item with t4 flange and is rated to an equivalent t04e capable of 5-600hp output. unfortunately its a thrust bearing but it is what it is and it was free and new. speaking of which the dump is a 4 inch item... ok so with the oil squirters, i would be better off ceramic coating the pistons?? and adding to that the exhaust manifold dump and heat wrap the exhaust manifold on top for added heat restriction and add in an oil cooler for the engine being that double insulated turbo manifold is going to raise oil temp..?? I was looking at building a 25/30 a number of years ago, Going over the same questions. In the end, it was cheap to put the restrictors in the block. Get a balance harmonic balancer, balanced flywheel, wack the 25 head on it, and go from there. If you kill it, a 30 block is rather cheap. The insulation wrap IMO is bad. Moisture get traped in it, and it rusts everything. Zinc is good stuff to apply to it. IMO. Ceramic coating, or oil squiters (which, I'm not sure is possible to tap in the 30 blocks) is just a waste of money. If you wanted that, you should have started out with the S2 block. The only thing they really suffer from is poor balancing. Hence, balancing the Harmonic balancer, and balanced flywheel. But thats just me. |
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Rancher
Post #11
QUOTE (Slideways_master @ Sep 25 2011, 06:00 PM) have got a s2 block still need info about 26 cams in 25 head Its not worth it. There are differences in both cams, and the 26 cam just doesn't quite fit. Plus the difference in the buckets, and height. The 25DE cam would be more then up to the job (And, I've heard of people using these in DET motors as they have a longer duration) If you're so intent on changing the cams, spend it on something that actually fit the 25 head. |
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Slideways_master
Post #12
yeah looking at poncams from rhdjapan half the pric e of just jap and solid lifter conversion weights in at 1500+ |
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Slideways_master
Post #14
rancher the de cams are rooted the only have 240 deg duration which is 2 more then rb20 and lift is less so its now worth my time. yeah gutless i considered the neo head but fucking around with vct crap and the wiring na not my thing vct does f all and after looking at the solid lifter conversion the car mainly going to be for personal use not godzilla style life....atm may be looking at spool rb34 stroker as of today though.. |
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Slideways_master
Post #15
also looking at doing an r32gts4 thread so that everyone has same info cause there seems to be ALOT of mismatched info. |
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Slideways_master
Post #18
ls1 or 2 or 3or whatever is shit, terrible, re hella what supporting mods ya got mate?? 8k should cover a good rb25/30 combo if ya can do alot ya self. |
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gutless
Post #19
QUOTE (hella r32 @ Sep 28 2011, 10:34 AM) bit O/T, im really getting over my rev happy rb20 now and im starting to look at my options, so asking for opinions as to what way i should go. i have roughly up $8000 to play with. 1. head swap options for the rb20 2.rb30/25head 3.rb30/26head 4.rb26 5.or 1j Well if you want good Torque and Power made down low and want to stick to a budget, i would go with a 25/30(as a 26 head is considerably more expensive). Put Aside another 4k on top. prepare to spend around 5.5k on getting the bottom end properly prepped and built with forged internals(this figure is a quote for bottom end ready to bolt a head straight on from last year). Get the head checked,decked,prepped and VCT Welded up and rerouted(would recommend retaining VCT). Get a good quality Turbo,Exhaust Manifold,Plenum,Injector Set,Fuel pump,ECU and get a decent tune. All in All get ready to spend more than this in the end(considering that there may be a cheaper price for building the bottom end) but none the less when you build a Hybrid 30 you should always go 1 of 2 ways:"Completely dodgy" or "Do it right, do it once!". Picking option 3 where you cheap out in certain areas will just leave you with empty pockets and a fucked engine in most cases. For a completely dodgy build buy a standard running RB30 and a Full non-running RB25DET long motor. swap all the externals parts over like water pump,oil pump etc. move the tensioner for the timing belt(of which you need a new one with more teeth because of the twincam head),grind off the top bits on the side of the block that would obstruct a twincam head and weld up VCT in the head(may have missed a few little mods to do in this process but you get the jist). whack on the head and hey presto you have a 25/30 with conrods that are rated to an average of 300RWKW. so then you can have some fun until it blows up or you crash  (would like to try this some day just to see what i could get out of the engine before it blew up) These are my opinions and my current knowledge, if i am wrong about something i am more than happy to retract said information. hope this helps. QUOTE (Slideways_master @ Sep 28 2011, 08:41 PM) ls1 or 2 or 3or whatever is shit, terrible, re hella what supporting mods ya got mate?? 8k should cover a good rb25/30 combo if ya can do alot ya self. Post proof or STFU. IIRC LS1 weighs less than an RB25DET. I Love RB Engines but i am not closed minded and thick. Don't go rubbishing engines just because you can(My personal quibble with LS engines is i much rather a more oldschool sound to a V8 of which in my opinion an LS is lacking as opposed to say even the note of a 304 but i don't go saying they are shit terrible engines because its quite apparent they are not). There is no Replacement for Displacement.
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NTG78
Post #20
QUOTE (Slideways_master @ Sep 28 2011, 08:41 PM) ls1 or 2 or 3or whatever is shit, terrible, re hella what supporting mods ya got mate?? 8k should cover a good rb25/30 combo if ya can do alot ya self. are you speaking from experience about this? (bold part) I have seen some tough LS1/2's and they don't seem to be Shit ... maybe you should post some Proof to back your statement? |
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Slideways_master
Post #22
work on them mate and they burn oil like shit, and yes as i said my missus has 04 hsv and unless they are fully build with forgies and oil cooler etc they are shit! ford ftw. and until holden even have the remote racing heritage that ford due they can fuck off on quality. |
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aussiemk2
Post #23
QUOTE (Slideways_master @ Sep 29 2011, 06:20 AM) work on them mate and they burn oil like shit, and yes as i said my missus has 04 hsv and unless they are fully build with forgies and oil cooler etc they are shit! ford ftw. and until holden even have the remote racing heritage that ford due they can fuck off on quality. i take it when you say you work on them, you mean you have worked on a vt/wh ls1 which had a small oil issue which was fixed in the later variants of the motor, ls2,3 etc don't have oil issues unless someone is putting the wrong oil in. |
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Rancher
Post #25
QUOTE (Slideways_master @ Sep 29 2011, 06:20 AM) work on them mate and they burn oil like shit, and yes as i said my missus has 04 hsv and unless they are fully build with forgies and oil cooler etc they are shit! ford ftw. and until holden even have the remote racing heritage that ford due they can fuck off on quality. You're a drop kick. I own an LS1. Doesn't burn any oil at all. Been a realiable as shit motor, and FUCK LOADS better then the cast iron that are the RB motors. Get a clue, you obviously dont work on them. You're just repeating what you heard 12yrs ago when the 1st gen LS1's were released. |
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hella r32
Post #26
QUOTE (gutless @ Sep 28 2011, 10:28 PM) Well if you want good Torque and Power made down low and want to stick to a budget, i would go with a 25/30(as a 26 head is considerably more expensive). Put Aside another 4k on top. prepare to spend around 5.5k on getting the bottom end properly prepped and built with forged internals(this figure is a quote for bottom end ready to bolt a head straight on from last year). Get the head checked,decked,prepped and VCT Welded up and rerouted(would recommend retaining VCT). Get a good quality Turbo,Exhaust Manifold,Plenum,Injector Set,Fuel pump,ECU and get a decent tune. All in All get ready to spend more than this in the end(considering that there may be a cheaper price for building the bottom end) but none the less when you build a Hybrid 30 you should always go 1 of 2 ways:"Completely dodgy" or "Do it right, do it once!". Picking option 3 where you cheap out in certain areas will just leave you with empty pockets and a fucked engine in most cases. For a completely dodgy build buy a standard running RB30 and a Full non-running RB25DET long motor. swap all the externals parts over like water pump,oil pump etc. move the tensioner for the timing belt(of which you need a new one with more teeth because of the twincam head),grind off the top bits on the side of the block that would obstruct a twincam head and weld up VCT in the head(may have missed a few little mods to do in this process but you get the jist). whack on the head and hey presto you have a 25/30 with conrods that are rated to an average of 300RWKW. so then you can have some fun until it blows up or you crash (would like to try this some day just to see what i could get out of the engine before it blew up) These are my opinions and my current knowledge, if i am wrong about something i am more than happy to retract said information. hope this helps. Post proof or STFU. IIRC LS1 weighs less than an RB25DET. I Love RB Engines but i am not closed minded and thick. Don't go rubbishing engines just because you can(My personal quibble with LS engines is i much rather a more oldschool sound to a V8 of which in my opinion an LS is lacking as opposed to say even the note of a 304 but i don't go saying they are shit terrible engines because its quite apparent they are not). There is no Replacement for Displacement. ok thanks mate, i definately wouldnt take the cheap option of making a slapper, anyone know what a rough figure would be to build a 25/30? i have a motor out of my old vl calais factory turbo-the donor block which only has 46000ks on it. i also have a haltech e6x and a garret gt3540, set of gtr injectors- are these up 2 the job? |
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clutch-monkey
Post #27
QUOTE (Slideways_master @ Sep 29 2011, 06:20 AM) work on them mate and they burn oil like shit, and yes as i said my missus has 04 hsv and unless they are fully build with forgies and oil cooler etc they are shit! ford ftw. and until holden even have the remote racing heritage that ford due they can fuck off on quality. hurr V8's are heavy and drink fuel |
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Slideways_master
Post #28
yeah true mate i hate the things, re the wanker that abused me fuck off dickhead i own a vy and i work on many of them just because they say on paper what they will doesnt necessarily mean thats it the be all and end all and no the ls2 and 3 burn the oil black as dirt within 5000kms quite regulary. and to compare a AMERICAN CHEV to an cast iron rb is fucken just as stupid! rb is smaller engine less cylinders and can make the same amount of power and still beat the AMERICAN piece of crap down the quarter, around the track and up a fucken hill whilst being far more reliable, and while we are on this note the thread is about 25/30 so fuck you and fuck ya holden commodore shit of fuckhead i never asked for your insults. |
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wbtonner
Post #29
QUOTE (Slideways_master @ Sep 29 2011, 10:03 PM) yeah true mate i hate the things, re the wanker that abused me fuck off dickhead i own a vy and i work on many of them just because they say on paper what they will doesnt necessarily mean thats it the be all and end all and no the ls2 and 3 burn the oil black as dirt within 5000kms quite regulary. and to compare a AMERICAN CHEV to an cast iron rb is fucken just as stupid! rb is smaller engine less cylinders and can make the same amount of power and still beat the AMERICAN piece of crap down the quarter, around the track and up a fucken hill whilst being far more reliable, and while we are on this note the thread is about 25/30 so fuck you and fuck ya holden commodore shit of fuckhead i never asked for your insults. SO in regards to cost and stuff gtr injectors will run it but not high on power. spend around 6k on everything biggest thing though is the machining i've been doing alot of research into this and paint the inside of the bolk, knife edge it and take out the burrs and get a good oil pump Your a bloody idiot. I read you previous posts as well, I second my first response, your a bloody idiot. |
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clutch-monkey
Post #30
QUOTE (Slideways_master @ Sep 29 2011, 10:03 PM) yeah true mate i hate the things, re the wanker that abused me fuck off dickhead i own a vy and i work on many of them just because they say on paper what they will doesnt necessarily mean thats it the be all and end all and no the ls2 and 3 burn the oil black as dirt within 5000kms quite regulary. and to compare a AMERICAN CHEV to an cast iron rb is fucken just as stupid! rb is smaller engine less cylinders and can make the same amount of power and still beat the AMERICAN piece of crap down the quarter, around the track and up a fucken hill whilst being far more reliable, and while we are on this note the thread is about 25/30 so fuck you and fuck ya holden commodore shit of fuckhead i never asked for your insults. SO in regards to cost and stuff gtr injectors will run it but not high on power. spend around 6k on everything biggest thing though is the machining i've been doing alot of research into this and paint the inside of the bolk, knife edge it and take out the burrs and get a good oil pump i was being sarcastic LSx> loong overweight RB moneypit any day, choice permitting |
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Slideways_master
Post #31
QUOTE (Rancher @ Sep 29 2011, 04:59 PM) You're a drop kick. I own an LS1. Doesn't burn any oil at all. Been a realiable as shit motor, and FUCK LOADS better then the cast iron that are the RB motors. Get a clue, you obviously dont work on them. You're just repeating what you heard 12yrs ago when the 1st gen LS1's were released. fuck off idiot |
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Slideways_master
Post #32
QUOTE (clutch-monkey @ Sep 29 2011, 10:34 PM) i was being sarcastic LSx> loong overweight RB moneypit any day, choice permitting no not you mate |
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Slideways_master
Post #33
QUOTE (wbtonner @ Sep 29 2011, 10:32 PM) Your a bloody idiot. I read you previous posts as well, I second my first response, your a bloody idiot. and your a fuckwit |
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