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crimson
  • crimson
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  • Joined: 29-September 05
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  • From: Melbourne
Post #1 post 5th October 2005 - 07:26 PM
so, i was jsut thinking (as i do) and i realised this is what i know about certain toyota engines:

2JZ-GTE

2997cc DOHC twin turbo I6. solid cast iron construction = F'ING STRONG. basically unbreakable, and easy to get mountains of power from, as confirmed by www.to4r.com. later variations of this engine had the toyota vvt-i variable valve timing system.


1JZ-GTE

2491cc DOHC twin turbo I6 (or single turbo vvti). the 2JZ is basically a stroked 1JZ, although the 1JZ is known to have a superior head design with better flow, hence the existence of the 1.5JZ-GTE


1.5JZ-GTE

2997cc twin turbo I6: 2JZ w/ 1JZ head. if this doesnt make sense to you, you haven't read above info... shame on you. king of the JZ's (no, not the fat lipped rapper).


3S-GTE

1998cc DOHC turbo I4, also cast iron, arguably the strongest of the jap 2 litres. this is somewhat backed up by rally cars running 700+kw (rod millen, check him out).


1G-GTE

~2000cc DOHC turbo I6, opinions on this engine range from 'fairly good' to 'crap'. of course there are advantages to this configuration... the advantages of a 6cyl over a 4cyl (in relation to 3s-gte) and advantages of less displacement (in relation to JZ, cheaper to insure, harder to overtorque a light weaker chassis, easier to register in a different car ie. swap)... but i have heard numerous negative opinions on this particular eng, though im not informed on any real specificissues.


7M-GTE

2954cc DOHC turbo/twin turbo(?) I6 - yes, similar in basic spec to the 2JZ, and yes they have potential... but i hope you like watching black smoke pour out from under your bonnet. these things love to eat head gaskets, among other things... all in all, they are about as reliable as john howard (having said that, lets plz not make this poltical...)


[all above engines were also produced in naturally aspirated form]


4A-GE

1587cc DOHC I4 - another toyota winner, this engine went into so many different models of corolla it's not funny. and with good reason, its a great, smooth, economical and reasonably powerful engine (20v and supercharged versions [4a-GZE] making 110kw+!!). mostly FWD, but also came RWD (sprinter). IMO, great for lighter older toyota chassis' (celicas and corollas from the 70s).


camry engines

for example 5S-FE.... these engines are not "weak" as many of you power nuts say.... stock, 4cyl and 6cyl camry engines are great, very smooth and economical, not too weak either. HOWEVER, they do not take well to modification as they are in a fairly high state of tune for factory and were never really designed for tunability... i have heard of turbo kits but i highly doubt these engines would take well to boost.


COMMENTS PLEASE!! also add your own info to these or other toyota engines, i do realise these are all modern, EFI type powerplants (although lets not forget the 4ac)

i also realise this is a very brief and undetailed description but i didnt want to make it too long or no one would read it right? and besides, there's a lot i dont know and im sure there are people already lined up to argue me, prove me wrong, or point out my mistakes

nuts.gif

This post has been edited by crimson: Oct 5 2005, 07:52 PM
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VLTurbro
Post #2

The amazing thing is I only have limited knowledge about the 16s in the Supras and the Toyota V8s. lol
yoda
Post #3

got any more info on the 3S-GTE marking 700kw

crimson
Post #4

QUOTE(yoda @ Oct 5 2005, 07:36 PM)
got any more info on the 3S-GTE marking 700kw
[right][snapback]5418382[/snapback][/right]

yeah, any of rod millens pikes peak rally cars, links in a mo.... i know they run 102+ octane fuel, but thats still damn impressive for a production 2 litre 4 pot.

Phat999
Post #5

some cool info u got there
i won't argue with ur info lol

VP_Viper
Post #6

i wont argue with your info cuz all i know is toyota engines are built to last!

crimson
Post #7

i cant find any official specs for rod millen's cars, but it is common knowledge that he does tune 3s-gte's to over 700kw (they are heavily modded though, ~2100cc etc) but dont forget that they are more reliable, not all out tune like a drag car because:

- it takes at least 10 minutes to get up pikes peak (rod millen holds the record in, guess what, yes his 3S-GTE powered celica...10:04.06 achieved in 1994!!!)

- the altitude difference is crazy, 14,000 feet above sea level... the air is much thinner at that height... by the top the cars might be running on only half the power they had at the bottom, especially when running insane levels of boost like RM.

-rally car's are generally built to be quite reliable due to the adverse conditions they constantly face


another tribute to the greatness of the 3s-gte is that most of the supras in the JGTC were running them for many years, instead of the great 2JZ!!!

here is a link relating to the 3s-GTE, but its not that great.

http://kaferjca0.tripod.com/3sgteinfo.htm

dunno.gif

`nigno
Post #8

Informative post.... have only skim read it but most of it seems correct to me smile.gif good work champ will post some more goodies about the 1UZFE when I get home (currently on the sunny coast)

crimson
Post #9

QUOTE(laidme @ Oct 5 2005, 08:05 PM)
u have to much time, i sugest take up chess
[right][snapback]5418524[/snapback][/right]

i must be in the wrong place, i thought this was a forum for people who are interested in cars, esp. the modification of them.

ej20t-vw
Post #10

Ok, someone had to do it sooner or later.

4AC
57kw. For what it was designed for, it was a brilliant motor. Enough power and torque to keep up with traffic and thats about it. Reasonable fuel economy. Carburettored, 8 valve, SOHC, lowish compression, non cross-flow weak younger brother of 4age. Examples with up to 500000kms on the original motor have been seen. If maintained correctly, will take an enormous amount of thrashing with not much adverse affects.

lo_rolla
Post #11

Hey man with camry engines. The reason they don't take well to boosting is because they have extremely weak rods.

A 3sfe (rav4), 5sfe (camry) 3vzfe (camry v6) are all quite weak, with the 3vz being the strongest internally.

3SGE / GTE have extremely sturdy rods. The rods in a 3SGE are harder to bend then RB26DETT rods (I've tried)

7A FE is 1.8L, no performance engine, but I've worked out that 3SGE rods _should_ fit. Which would lift compression, stroke the motor and give it a much stronger bottom end = revs + torque. (RB26 big ends are also .002" off 3S/7A big ends)

Do some research on 1FZ FE, about 4.5L I6, can be boosted to 600hp+ with out bottom end modification...

I can find out more...

lo_rolla
Post #12

QUOTE(ej20t-vw @ Oct 5 2005, 08:30 PM)
Ok, someone had to do it sooner or later.

4AC
57kw. For what it was designed for, it was a brilliant motor. Enough power and torque to keep up with traffic and thats about it. Reasonable fuel economy. Carburettored, 8 valve, SOHC, lowish compression, non cross-flow weak younger brother of 4age. Examples with up to 500000kms on the original motor have been seen. If maintained correctly, will take an enormous amount of thrashing with not much adverse affects.
[right][snapback]5418619[/snapback][/right]

I'll attest to that. I had one with 104K not bad for a 20 year old car.

I tried to kill it but I couldn't. It survived trees, mud and so on.

ej20t-vw
Post #13

mine has seen several trips beyond 100 kmh in second gear

crimson
Post #14

hmm, this makes me feel like going out and buying an aus delivered 4ac sprinter. i have seen some quite cheap.

ej20t-vw
Post #15

I wouldnt advise it. The gutlessness of the 4ac has to be driven to be understood. Mind you, it wasnt a sprinter, just an ae82 corolla. It certainly doesnt have enough power to drift with out handbrake assistance...

FHA57
Post #16

dont forget the 1jzgte has oil squirters that squirt the undesides of the pistons to keep them cool and they 24 valve not 16 biggrin.gif also double overhead cam and the head is made by yamaha

crimson
Post #17

still, buy an unregisterable example for <$1000 and take it out on some dirt roads... and have some faith that it will bring you back home...

sounds alright to me.

crimson
Post #18

QUOTE(FHA57 @ Oct 5 2005, 08:56 PM)
dont forget the 1jzgte has oil squirters that squirt the undesides of the pistons to keep them cool and they 24 valve not 16 biggrin.gif also double overhead cam and the head is made by yamaha
[right][snapback]5418728[/snapback][/right]

i said they are I6 (as in inline 6) not 16
i also stated DOHC
and yes the 1JZ head is made by yamaha.

FHA57
Post #19

oh and the 1jzgte has beaten a 2jzgte with the same mods over the quarter mile but for top end power 2jz is the go

ej20t-vw
Post #20

Lol, just get an ae71 corolla, the last of the rear drive ones. Sprinters are just way too expensive to use as bush bashers now.

Jezboosted
Post #21

3sgte - Used in the Top Secret Supra for top speed events instead of the 1/2jz. Better power/weight and weight distribution. Would of been easy over 600kw's.

7mgte - Single turbo only CT26 not like the 3Sgte CT26 which has split pulse turbine entry. Apparently N/A cams on the 7mgte are beneficial. Yes head gasket issues but mainly due to low factory torque settings. CT26 turbo can have a T04e 57-60trim wheel fitted/machined compressor housing and 10 degree clip exhaust wheel for 250kw's plus easy. AFM can be swapped with 1uzfe item and 550cc RX7 injectors can be fitted to remove fuel cut at 14-16psi lifting it 20psi plus while keeping factory driving.

4afe - Narrow angle twin cam 1600cc, very economical ( 14-15k's per litre ), quite a gutsy small engine. likes to rev, but still torquey enough to pull up most hills 4th gear. power i think is around the 75-80kw mark. Enough for me to *almost* beat a auto BA falcon to 100k's hehe

FHA57
Post #22

but every one knows the 7mgte are truck motors and fucked to work on jz series was the best of the japanese 6 cyl range

|DrIfTeD|
Post #23

1G-GTE is resonably slugish in the supra as stock but from a few examples ive seen of them puttin 500+hp so they should have the potential there

crimson
Post #24

QUOTE(FHA57 @ Oct 5 2005, 08:58 PM)
oh and the 1jzgte has beaten a 2jzgte with the same mods over the quarter mile but for top end power 2jz is the go
[right][snapback]5418737[/snapback][/right]

the opposite actually
with the same turbo, the 1J & 2J will make similar peak power.... but if you know of a thing called 'under the dyno curve', the 2JZ's average power will be fairly higher. also the 1JZs can rev harder thx to their shorter stroke.
crimson
Post #25

woot my thread is officially a hot topic!

Jezboosted
Post #26

Explain *fucked to work on*
Truck motors - well i'd say torque monster myself. Off boost pull was excellent and so what if it didn't like to rev past 6500-7000, it did all it needed to in that rev range. I have had many a race with the 7mgte soarer and mild tune skylines, rx7's and even a modded new turbo 6 falcon ute couldn't match it.

I've done an engine/gbox swap myself with the 7mgte from soarer to supra version and to be honest these motors are not *fucked to work on*

crimson
Post #27

i do question FHA57's knowledge

The Pupat
Post #28

http://www.fullboost.com.au/records.php?class=8

5. N.S.W Dom Rigoli Nissan R32 GTS-t 7M-GTE W.S.I.D 9.58 140

Yeah 7M-GTE's are shit.... or so I've been told.

3RZ-FE Crappy Toyota Hilux motors that have made reliable 400rwhp with a crude but effective thicker head gasket to drop compression and a hairdryer hanging off them. And up to 1600hp in FWD US drag cars on a standard crank.

1FZ-FE Crappy Toyota Landcruiser motor that can make 381rwkw (510rwhp) unopened with a hairdryer hanging off them.

psi999
Post #29

QUOTE(The Pupat @ Oct 5 2005, 09:34 PM)
http://www.fullboost.com.au/records.php?class=8

5.  N.S.W Dom Rigoli Nissan R32 GTS-t 7M-GTE W.S.I.D 9.58 140

Yeah 7M-GTE's are shit.... or so I've been told..
[right][snapback]5418856[/snapback][/right]


And adding to that, totally stock top end (cams, valve springs, valves) andbottom end = forged pistons and ARP head studs.... stock rods, unsleaved block & stock crank.

Far from a POS, you blokes need to get a clue.
crimson
Post #30

QUOTE(The Pupat @ Oct 5 2005, 09:34 PM)
http://www.fullboost.com.au/records.php?class=8

5.  N.S.W Dom Rigoli Nissan R32 GTS-t 7M-GTE W.S.I.D 9.58 140

Yeah 7M-GTE's are shit.... or so I've been told.
[right][snapback]5418856[/snapback][/right]

sarcasm noted.

btw, not everyone has a spare 20+k to build a 9 second car.

psi999
Post #31

QUOTE(crimson @ Oct 5 2005, 09:42 PM)
sarcasm noted.

btw, not everyone has a spare 20+k to build a 9 second car.
[right][snapback]5418878[/snapback][/right]


the 9 sec @ 140mph motor has all of about 2k spent on it from stock my friend.

Edit - 2k not including bolt-on's, just engine head to sump.

user posted image

The Pupat
Post #32

QUOTE(psi999 @ Oct 5 2005, 09:43 PM)
the 9 sec @ 140mph motor has all of about 2k spent on it from stock my friend.
[right][snapback]5418881[/snapback][/right]


Stop that everyone knows 7M's are shit though.

crimson
Post #33

QUOTE(psi999 @ Oct 5 2005, 09:43 PM)
the 9 sec @ 140mph motor has all of about 2k spent on it from stock my friend.

Edit - 2k not including bolt-on's, just engine head to sump.
[right][snapback]5418881[/snapback][/right]

not to mention the costs of getting a 7m into a 32... oh and there is more to a 9 second car than the engine.
FHA57
Post #34

ahhah question my knowledge well sorry mr toyota tech bwhahhaha look at wat i own u dont think i know a thing or 2 about it yes 7mgte can b transferred into a good motor but lots of stuff is needed for this every magazine on a 7mgte reads that its classed as a truck motor and ever person that ive known with the engines want to swap a 1jz into them nuff said biggrin.gif

The Pupat
Post #35

QUOTE(crimson @ Oct 5 2005, 09:52 PM)
not to mention the costs of getting a 7m into a 32... oh and there is more to a 9 second car than the engine.
[right][snapback]5418906[/snapback][/right]


Yeah so that obviously means 7M are shit and 1JZ is the only motor you should ever use.

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