Sommerset Dam Cruise #3 - 11th July 2010  

Chunk

Thats close enough

Purple Soarer - Black Carbon Bonnet (now removed due to defect notice) and crappy red front bar (interim while replacement is being resprayed).

But yeah, thats me

Why do you ask?

Z3RO

I've seen you on boost a heap of times. Since we were at the same meet i would have said hi. I came up and looked at your bonnet and commented that i like it. I like the scoops and how they are part of the bonnet. Looks stands out.

Chunk

Ah ok cool

Yeah, come up and say hi next time!

Z3RO

Will do next time. I will remember the car.

S2krazie

I've taken your advice.

Judging by the Infringement Notice, I can send an enquiry to the Manager of QT Prosecution Unit.

My question is, does he or she have the power to see leniency in an Infringement Notice (I'll happily accept the 25km/h repercussions), or must such leniency take placeonly in that of a Court room?

I ask because I've written up a 2 page detailed analysis of the events that took place along with Google Map images showing both visual and geographical maps of the signage placement.

xxxxgold

Absolutely.

I'm assuming the police are alleging that prior to the 80km/h sign you observed that the limit was already 80km/h? Or is the allegation that you were travelling at 125 once you had passed the 80 sign and were subsequently decelerating?

In QLD (outside of the local 50km/h limit) the speed limit is 100km/h unless otherwise signed. If the road you came off was 100km/h and there were no signs to indicate otherwise, the limit is indeed 100km/h until you hit that first 80k sign.

Upon receipt of your letter, a number of things could happen -

- The prescribed officer may decide that the infringement notice particulars are accurate/valid and you will have to take your chances in court if you wish to contest.

- The infringement may be reissued with the appropriate corrections (125 in a 100 zone).

- The allegation may be withdrawn entirely.

If you are likely to contest the matter, get out there and take photos as soon as you can. Don't rely on Street View/Google Earth etc, quite often these were mapped a number of years ago and won't stand up in court. Do it before you raise your concerns with the police, don't give them a chance to go and erect a brand spanking new 80 sign where there wasn't one previously!

Z3RO

What about Malcom Blue Vs Adelaide??

S2krazie

All the roads are 100km/h.
I turned into the street, assuming 100km/h, gave it a bit more. There is no 80 sign before the one 2.5KM up the road.

Approximately 2.5KM up the road, I saw a sign for 80km/h. At this point I hit the brakes and began to slow down (as to not overly exceed the limit).

Look in my rear view mirror and the disco lights come on after the 80km/h sign.

Says he got me at 125km/h "back there".

I'm happy to be raped for 25km/h over the limit.



This has all been stated in the 2pg summary.

I'll take a trip tomorrow with camera in hand. Anything specific I should shoot?

S2krazie

I was quite content to take the fine. Accept my consequences. As I'm sure Z3ro can attest.
Everyone says I'm nuts.

Z3RO

You were rather calm about it, i'll say that. You can always go to court and contest it, keep the fine and apply for a reduction in points obtained.

xxxxgold

Yeah that sure was an interesting one, took 2 years or thereabouts and saved himself $30 from memory



You have to be quite pedantic when you are taking photos which may be used in court. You need to 'overlap' the individual photos so there can be no allegation made that you neglected to photograph a particular stretch of the road where a speed sign may have been present. In each photo try to get a point of reference, it might be a tree, sign, guardrail etc, basically anything fixed. In your next photo you need to ensure that the point of reference is still visible. It's no good picking something 5km away as it will always be in view, even if you skip half a km of road! Aim for perhaps 200m intervals, shorter if you have the time and/or inclination.

xxxxgold

I should have added, start from where the road branches off the 100km/h section and photograph the surroundings until the first 80km/h sign is clearly visible.

Z3RO

$31 and got the fine reduced from 3 points to 1.

The same might apply here with a reduction from 8 to 4 (which we seem to going for).

S2krazie

Wouldn't the UC car have onboard video showing this anyway?

xxxxgold

I was close

I believe the difference in Blue's case is he contested simply on the grounds that the penalty was excessive rather than the infringement contained erroneous information which may well be the case with S2krazie.

Where it is believed that an infringement notice contains incorrect information, the logical first step is to have the infringement reviewed and hopefully reissued with the correct information, or withdrawn entirely. Of course you would probably only raise the issue if a correction would work in your favour

Should S2krazie's letter not have the desired effect, he could then elect for a court hearing and proceed as Blue, and many others have done.

S2krazie

I'd even take the 8 points, it doesn't matter - I have 11 and have had for about 12 months. Before that I had 12 obviously, which I had for about 2yrs.

I work in multi locations throughout Australia at times of 9pm to 6 am or 10pm to 7am, in any town where there's a Coles supermarket store in Australia.
Last week for example I was in outback country Melbourne in a town 15 minutes from Marysville ; middle of nowhere.

xxxxgold

Potentially, but to be perfectly honest i'm not sure how many unmarked police vehicles are fitted with onboard video and if it was fitted, was it operational at the time, what the quality is, the alignment of the camera and so on.

A lot of variables that could work against you, best to do the legwork and obtain the evidence yourself.

Z3RO

I am refering to reduction from 125 in an 80 zone to 125 in a 100 zone.

S2krazie

I know what I'm doing tomorrow then.

Thanks!

xxxxgold

I think we are saying the same thing, just in different ways.

There is no point in going to court if S2krazie freely admits to doing 125 in the 100 zone and he can get the infringement notice to be reissued to reflect this.

Z3RO

I agree, if he can get it over turned in the first place from 45 over to 25 over before going to court that will be a huge win and save alot of time. But I believe that Police will use court as a deterant for him to pursue any further than a letter and drag it out to a hearing.

RetardedMonkey

I sat there and wondered how Police could follow me for about a 10-12km stretch of road before pulling me over, all the while committing numerous offences, being a danger to others etc?

Friend informed me today that in Queensland entrapment does not exist so they could follow you 100km and do you for every minor mistake you made. Can someone confirm?

S2krazie

Entrapment law doesn't exist in Australia at all? You should know that.

xxxxgold

Just an interesting, and vaguely relevant postscript.

A while (read - years) ago, in the space of a week, about 4 people (may have been 5) approached us about TIN's they received in a school zone in Beenleigh. There was obviously a blitz on in the area at the time, if those 4 or 5 approached us (considering we are in the CBD) i hate to think how many complaints the local solicitors dealt with.

As it turns out, there is a popular 'rat run' from the Beenleigh industrial area back onto the M1. Part of this includes a school zone. The road leading onto the road which has a school zone on it had a speed limit of 50km/h, although i believe this has been subsequently lowered to 40, and had traffic calming devices installed. People were travelling along this 'feeder' road where the limit was 50, turning onto the road in which the school zone was and were not aware that they were actually in a school zone until another sign a few hundred metres up the road indicated this. There was of course a sign prior to this, but it was prior to the intersection so people travelling this route did not pass it.

These motorists were (rightly) adamant that because there was no school zone sign in between the previous 50 sign and the first SZ sign they encountered, they should not have been issued with a TIN. Police refused to withdraw the infringements and all elected for a court hearing and were subsequently successful.

There have been plenty of other similar complaints, but i have never seen such a volume of complaints from one area in such a short space of time.

xxxxgold

Section 144 of the Transport Operations (Road Use Management) Act -

Provisions of this Act about offences (other than section 79 and 80) do not apply to a police officer while exercising a power, or performing a function, under this or another Act.

S2krazie

If the QT Prosecution Manager rejects my (lets call it) letter of leniency and I go to court to appeal my case, is it likely my suspension can be extended from 6 months to 6 months +?

Edit: I've always wondered this.

WRX-75X

X 2...

Me too i followed about a 10 cars ended up along the expressway (city) then it was only me, a white S15. and 2 other cars.... Ohh well, we ended up at fernvale.. after abit of side tracking. lol..

I got there just as everyone was leaving the "catch up point" ... then was back in front with MRR33 and others. ...

Was a good day outting...

I only used abit over 1/2 a tank of petrol too. not bad.

xxxxgold

In your case no, as the penalty is a mandatory 6 month suspension, no more no less.

Ordinarily the answer is yes, a Magistrate or Judge may impose a more substantial penalty than what was imposed by police, although in practice this is extremely rare. The same is true when you are appealing a court imposed penalty/sentence.

<-KuRt->

Hey mate,
I'll admitt that was me as i couldnt care less of what people think of me on here.
But just to clear things up I had no intention to lead the cruise. For starters I had turned down a different road (not designated on the cruise route).... So im not sure why a large group decided to follow me? especially as i didnt even leave the woolworths meet with the group as i had left early to grab lunch. Anyway I continued driving allong there for quite while not having a clue where i was going and now knowing a group was following me which i didnt want to lead astray. As there was not alot of opportunities to pull over, when i saw a turnoff i thought that would be good opportunity to pull over and allow everyone to pass, as while i was breaking there would of been plenty of room to go around me. So ive breaked (being a commodore obviously doesnt stop too quickly), ive indicated (with what i believe was sufficient notice) and moved completely off the road, hoping the rest of the cruise would just continue on. But as you know everyone's decided to stop, the cars behind me must of had enough notice as they had easily stopped and pulled in behind me, the problem arose when people that couldnt fit off the road, have decided just to stop on the road instead of continuing driving past. Yes i regret doing this and probably should of kept driving to an even larger stretch of road to pull over, so I apoligise to anyone inconvenienced, and when approached by the owners of the vehicles involved have explained the situation and apoligised.

cheers,

RetardedMonkey

Don't feel too in the wrong mate.

People don't 'NEED' to be bumper to bumper and it's only their own fault and judgement to blame.

Chunk

Actually Kurt,

After reading your side and now knowing a bit better, I can see your point. I think it just became a bit of 'follow the leader'.

Ultimately, at the end of the day Its the drivers responsibility to ensure that he has enough space between him and the vehicle ahead of him, and they should be reading the traffic far enough ahead to allow themselves enough room for evasive action should it be needed.

Anyways, I'm glad I didnt flame you... because I'd just be feeling like a dickhead now if I did.

Cheers for the reply.

<-KuRt->

All good mate, yea that's what of told them too when they've tried pinning me to pay for the incident and after explaining the situation they seemed ok with it. but i'm glad there are reasonable people on here and can see it from my point of view. If i hadn't pulled over i probably would of been flamed for leading everyone the wrong way which i may have already done on a previous cruise and to be honest I dont think i've been on a cruise which hasnt involved a random abrupt stop including on the highway, where you either pull over if you can fit in, or continue further and pull over, but for some reason people thought it would be wise just to come to a complete stop while still on the road and because an accident has occurred too blame me, but oh well, and too who ever it was, kinda frustrating being sworn at, even before i knew an accident had occurred....... Anyway mistakes happen, was a descent day with some nice cars out, will see you lot out cruising next time......... hopefully with me NOT leading

cheers