LRP -> high octane ULP?  

optimax is meant to be fine in older engines

11th February 2003 - 11:34 PM  Reply  Quote

schaweet

11th February 2003 - 11:57 PM  Reply  Quote

hrmm...might do some searching...



anyone ever done the change over?

12th February 2003 - 12:31 AM  Reply  Quote

LRP and Optimax are nearly the same octane rating, BP and Shell have a handout on there pumps which tells you what cars you can run optimax in. you can buy a kit for LRP cars that hooks up to your motor which allows you to run unleaded, it is called "valve saver" or something like that, i can find out the proper name if you want.

12th February 2003 - 01:17 AM  Reply  Quote

get it retuned after you change over LRP and Premium have different burning qualities.

same with people who say you need something that acts like lead in the fuel to stop valve seat recession!!! thats a myth. why was lead added into fuel in the past???? the only reason being lead raises octane level. has never said anywhere on paper that it was added to coushin the valves and seat!!! so as for that valve saver i would pretty much think this is a gimick!! so yeah run the bitch on ULP and get it re-tuned and shell be sweet mate

12th February 2003 - 01:38 AM  Reply  Quote

The valve seat lube is accually a requirement for some cars...but I did some research on it and found out I dont need it...



Might consider getting it retuned...but I have a heap of other stuff on my to do list also!



Thanks for all the help!

12th February 2003 - 01:52 AM  Reply  Quote

ummm i dont think you read my post properly!!! tell me why you think that the valve seat lube is required on some cars??? the lube is suposible there to stop valve seat recession. BUT you only need to use that if your not going to use LEAD REPLACEMENT PETROL right? WRONG!!!

as i said lead was never put in fuel to do this. it was added to raise the octane level. so why would you suddenly have to put this shit in? Unleaded is the same but uses BENZINE instead of LEAD to raise the octane level. END CLASS 101

12th February 2003 - 02:05 AM  Reply  Quote

blown13b is right.....most ppl think that they need to use an upper cylinder lubricant with any kind of ULP if their motor was meant to run on Leaded....I used to run my old celica (18R motor) on premium cause it wasn't much more expensive and I got more to a tank out of it. I was also able to raise the ignition timing a little 'cause of the higher octane rating and it never gove me any problems

12th February 2003 - 02:51 AM  Reply  Quote

Yeah not much point adding Optimax and expecting to go faster.

Gotta advance your timing a whisker to take advantage of the extra octane. Then you will get more power and better fuel economy.



Apparently valve seat recession DOES OCCUR (according to an engine rebuilder I know?) but even on an alloy head we are talking 100,000k before it starts becoming an issue, let alone a problem.



Meh.

12th February 2003 - 02:58 AM  Reply  Quote

yeah definatly true. but the same deal with LPG!!!! its just funny that people at first were saying OHH YOU NEED A TOP END REBUILD TO RUN ULP IN YOUR CAR!!! what a crock of shit but at least they have realised now and have shut up

12th February 2003 - 03:05 AM  Reply  Quote

hrrmm that is true...but lrp and leaded have a different chemical compound to ulp so it might have something to do with that...im just going on what the fuel companies have said...

12th February 2003 - 03:06 AM  Reply  Quote

[quote]...im just going on what the fuel companies have said...[/quote]







Do you believe that oil suddenly increases in price on a thursday, friday, saturday and then suddenly gets cheap on a monday, tuesday, wednesday?

12th February 2003 - 03:07 AM  Reply  Quote

yeah fuckin Bill Gates

12th February 2003 - 03:09 AM  Reply  Quote

[quote][quote]...im just going on what the fuel companies have said...[/quote]







Do you believe that oil suddenly increases in price on a thursday, friday, saturday and then suddenly gets cheap on a monday, tuesday, wednesday?[/quote]



Shit hey.....and I though it was just a coinsidence :roll:

12th February 2003 - 03:13 AM  Reply  Quote

lol yea...well...they are money hungry pricks...



but i dont need that shit anyway apparently

12th February 2003 - 03:19 AM  Reply  Quote

FYI...LRP is Octane 96

12th February 2003 - 03:55 AM  Reply  Quote

its a lead engine right? well it will b fine just if u use it constantly for awhile it will wear things out quicker, like valves ect!

12th February 2003 - 03:59 AM  Reply  Quote

the thing will need a rebuild soonish anyway...bloody original engine i believe...its done something like 111000 miles...its already been around the clock once....



Number plates ODD-304 so i might source a 304ci V8 to make it true....muhahaha expensive

12th February 2003 - 04:31 AM  Reply  Quote

mate id like them plates for my vl that has a 304 in it giv them 2 me plz:)

12th February 2003 - 05:14 AM  Reply  Quote

Apparenly BP ultima works better on older engines, as its less hi-tech? A few people have said that optimax doesnt work on thier car, but ultimate does. But if it works go for it.

12th February 2003 - 05:18 AM  Reply  Quote

why would you want to use BP fuels, they are putting unrestricted amounts of ethanol in it, you might as well just tip sugar in your fuel tank.

12th February 2003 - 05:33 AM  Reply  Quote

[quote]why would you want to use BP fuels, they are putting unrestricted amounts of ethanol in it, you might as well just tip sugar in your fuel tank.[/quote]



Not in ultima. This discussion has been had before. Ultima does NOT have ethanol in it.

12th February 2003 - 05:36 AM  Reply  Quote

[quote]get it retuned after you change over LRP and Premium have different burning qualities.

same with people who say you need something that acts like lead in the fuel to stop valve seat recession!!! thats a myth. why was lead added into fuel in the past???? the only reason being lead raises octane level. has never said anywhere on paper that it was added to coushin the valves and seat!!! so as for that valve saver i would pretty much think this is a gimick!! so yeah run the bitch on ULP and get it re-tuned and shell be sweet mate[/quote]



Esso introduced - Tetra-Ethyl Lead (TEL). Unlike benzole or alcohol, TEL is not itself a fuel, but an additive; nevertheless it improved the octane rating of Esso fuel from its introduction in 1927. TEL was not commonplace in most petrols until at least 1935 so that vintage and veteran machines originally ran on 'unleaded'.... One of the problems which the motor and motorcycle industry discovered in the late thirties was that older valve steels didn't all stand up to the new leaded chemical environment.



The lead content was reduced, to reduce 'lead pollution', Lead content came down more than tenfold, with current leaded fuels having something like 0.1 gram/litre TEL. The reason for going completely unleaded is different, it is to reduce other pollutants, such as the unburned hydrocarbons and nitrogen oxides. To achieve this catalytic exhausts have been adopted, they cannot stand even the residual lead left over from engines previously running leaded fuels.



Leaded replacement fuel wear is caused by iron-oxide particles formed by the friction and heat at the exhaust valve. The particles grind between the valve and seat (the majority occurs when engines are underload and the friction is causing valve components to heat up) and as such leave an uneven surface. During the normal engine running the increased friction (and wear) causes components to break down prematurely which results in engine failure. Because of the nature of the operation of an engine, wear rates become a function of valve loading, relative motion of opening and closing of the valves, hardness, and speed. This is Where TEL based fuels come into their own.



Lead wasnt just used as a boost for octane levels it was used for lubrication processes. Flashlube (or any upper cylinder lubricant) does the same thing for valve train's. It is designed to keep a coating of lubricant over components in an effort to limit errosion caused by abrasive surfaces (read up alittle about heat) and stop VSR (you can change to a head with hardened seats and valves to correct this).



There's your written fact, any mechanic / reconditioner worth his salt will know the destructive properties associated with LRP.



My advice, you might just be lucky (considering the year of the vehicle) to have hardened valve seats fitted from factory. Japanese cars are notorious for having done so long before leaded fuels were to be replaced in australia. There is a list avaliable here listing cars safe to drive on unleaded fuels. (if you wish to download a copy of the listing, here it is in .XLS form)



Going on your description of your vehicle, i think it falls into this category Corolla KE1x /2x , Year: 1966-1974 Engine Model: K, 3K, 2K-H . If this is the case, your fine to run on unleaded, your vehicle does indeed have hardened valve seats. You might have to keep a look out for pinging.



The drop in octane isnt guarenteed to cause pinging, it is all todo with compression ratio's. If your engine runs a high compression ratio (lets say a 10:1) the mixture is compressed to approx a 10th of it's size during the combustion process. Different RON ratings do also contain information about how much the fuel can be compressed safely before ignition from compression takes place (it doesnt even need the spark plug, it will spontaneously combust). If your vehicle runs a lower compression ratio, Quite often it wont make a great deal of difference, Seeing as the mixture isnt being compressed as much during the stroke, the fuel is less likely to ignite. There are many factors on pinging, If you only drive your car in the city, Chances are you wont even notice the pinging until you get out and put it under load. So play it by ear

12th February 2003 - 08:53 AM  Reply  Quote

OK...well i have a 351 Cleveland that was rebuilt and ran on leaded for 2 months then on optimax for 4 months.

I then put this engine in my car.

I have found its runs best on unleaded atm but the timing is still $ucked

if i put bp ultimate in the car runs a least 10-15 degrees Celsius hotter.

should i be putting this valvec lubricant in or could i get away with it

the guy i bought the engine off is a mechanic so i am hoping he did things properly

just worries me that e put leaded in first!

Cheers

12th February 2003 - 02:02 PM  Reply  Quote

[quote]why would you want to use BP fuels, they are putting unrestricted amounts of ethanol in it, you might as well just tip sugar in your fuel tank.[/quote]



E10 has a clearly marked sign that says contains 10% ethanol?

12th February 2003 - 03:08 PM  Reply  Quote

You might find that when switching to PULP your timing is causing it running alittle lean (especially if it was running on ULP before hand). A downside of your timing being outside of optimal is that it can effect temperatures and cause the vehicle to run hotter.



With your clevo, you might have to see what head is on the car to be able to tell if it can run ULP without any problems. Dont happen to know who did the rebuild? they should be able to tell you in a second. If you want to be safe you can just run it on unleaded with UCL. If it is running high compression you may find it is hard to tune on ULP so premium might be your only option. You may find that the UCL fouls the plugs alittle, quite often you get a light film of oil over the plugs, if this causes ignition problems which to a hotter range of spark plug and it should burn it off now problems.

12th February 2003 - 10:20 PM  Reply  Quote

hehehe yep...but its not against the law because its older than a certain year...something like 1986 or something...





Thanks for all the help March_Hare!!



Premium here i come...

13th February 2003 - 01:33 AM  Reply  Quote

R U GUNNA GIMMIE UR PLATES?

13th February 2003 - 02:12 AM  Reply  Quote

:? not sure I can!

13th February 2003 - 02:18 AM  Reply  Quote

ill giv ya $20

13th February 2003 - 03:37 AM  Reply  Quote

cum on man, i know u wanna

13th February 2003 - 03:38 AM  Reply  Quote