Undercar Neons Are Legal - Well certain colours are  

tango955

Heres a constructive argument for you

DZ "I hate being told im wrong"

YOUR WRONG

TRANSPORT OPERATIONS (ROAD USE MANAGEMENT--VEHICLE STANDARDS AND SAFETY) REGULATION 1999
Ch 2 Section 8 Unauthorised lights
(1) A person must not fit a light or reflector to a vehicle unless the light or reflector is required to be fitted to the vehicle or is optional equipment for the vehicle--
(a) under section 5; or
(b) under a guideline or permit issued under section 10.
Maximum penalty--20 penalty units.
(2) However, a person does not contravene subsection (1) if the person reasonably believes the vehicle is not to be used on a road.

Moral of the story - yes you can have wank lights but only if your vehicle is not on a road.
BTW section 5 and 10 refer to ADR's

Dazzle - if the old lady in the camry takes her eyes of the road to look at the ricer with the pretty lights driving down the other side of the highway and rear ends someone thats dazzle my friend.
P.S. kiss your insurance goodbye aswell.

Croma

could i legally have Red lights under the back of my car hooked up to the brake lights? and Whites on the front hooked up to the Lights, and Orange on the sides hooked up to the indicators?


dont wanna do it, but is it technically legal?

tango955

Question is do you want to draw attention to yourself and get pulled over every time you drive?

silvia-sideways

TRANSPORT OPERATIONS (ROAD USE MANAGEMENT--VEHICLE STANDARDS AND SAFETY) REGULATION 1999
Section 104 Other lights and reflectors
(1) Despite any requirement of a third edition ADR—
(a) an exempt vehicle may be fitted with any light or
reflector; and
(b) a special use vehicle may be fitted with 1 or more
flashing yellow lights; and
© a sugar cane trailer or a vehicle towing it may be fitted
with 1 or more flashing yellow or green lights.
(2) A vehicle, other than a police vehicle, must not be fitted with
a blue light except with the written permission of the
commissioner.
(3) A vehicle may be fitted with any light or reflector not
mentioned in these standards.
(4) A vehicle, other than an exempt vehicle, a special use vehicle
or a sugar cane trailer or a vehicle towing it must not be fitted
with a light that flashes.
(5) A vehicle, other than an exempt vehicle, must not be fitted
with a light or reflector that—
(a) shows a red light to the front; or
(b) shows a white light to the rear; or
© is shaped or located in a way that reduces the
effectiveness of a light or reflector that is required to be
fitted to the vehicle under these standards.

tango955

Hows that going to help. If it mentions earlier in the same piece of legislation that it is illegal to fit any light or reflector to any vehicle that is not standard. The section you quote is refering to exempt and special purpose vehicles. Plus you still have the dazzle factor. End of the day theres heaps of legislation for prosecutors to rely upon and a Magistrate will not find in favour of someone who simply wants to tart up their car.
Neons do not conform to ADR's for use on public roads. If you desperatly have to advertise your product using neons (going for that supercheap look) then keep it for the display stand. You will never convince the Courts or the Police and you will get pulled over and bent over every time you take the car out. Why ???????????

DZ

Refer Section 5 as mentioned.

5 Vehicles must comply with vehicle standards
(1) A person must not drive or park, or permit someone else to drive or park, a vehicle on a road if—
(a) the vehicle is not fitted with the equipment (the equipment) mentioned in, or required by, the vehicle
standards, other than optional equipment, that is appropriate to the vehicle; or
(b) the equipment does not comply with the requirements specified in the vehicle standards; or
© the vehicle is not otherwise constructed and loaded to comply with the vehicle standards; or
(d) the vehicle, its parts or equipment are not in safe condition; or
(e) the vehicle is not unsafe, but it is otherwise defective; or
(f) optional equipment fitted to the vehicle does not comply with the requirements in the vehicle standards for the optional equipment; or
(g) the stationary noise level of the vehicle does not comply with the vehicle standards.

The optional equipment fitted to the vehicle is securely fitted and complies with the standards referred to earlier. Section 8 refers to optional equipment that does not comply with the standards. Fortunately, as per the rest of the thread, undercar lighting does comply to the standards if fitted securely and is the correct colour, etc. Section 8 does NOT state that the optional equipment must be a factory option. If this were the case, then spotlights, driving lights, aftermarket eye-level brake lights, etc. could not be fitted to vehicles.

Taking your eyes off the road is not being dazzled. Being temporarily blinded (as has been stated over and over again and referenced to dictionary definitions) is dazzled. Taking your eyes off the road (no matter what distracted you) and rear ending someone is driving without due care and attention.

I appreciate someone actually going to some effort to try and prove me wrong tho. Its much better than "neons are gay and you suck" type replies.


Hows about...

(1) Despite any requirement of a third edition ADR—

And the section quoted is NOT concerning special purpose vehicles. Special purpose vehicles have their own sections and/or special mentions in various subsections.

ro7ang

Werd. Think about it, if the definition of "dazzle" is to distract, then wouldn't all advertisements on the side of the road be banned in the interests of driver safety?

Anchor

Having neons on while driving just proves what an attention whore you are. Fair enough if they are on while you are parked up pumping your tunes. That doesn't look bad.

One of the worst sights possible is a piss-box with a fart cannon and neons..

DZ

But I AM an attention whore. No arguments. But its not illegal to be an attention whore either.
example: If you go out clubbing and wear your latest stylin' clothes and do your hair, etc, etc. you're being an attention whore. You want people (presumably chicks) to notice you.
I want people to notice the DriftZone promotional car. We've already covered that.
You wouldnt see a billboard with small, subtle writing and not lit up at night to advertise a product would you?
No, to advertise a product or service, you need to attract attention.

ps. This thread is not about whether you like under car lighting or not. Its about all of our legal rights. Please keep your fashion opinions to yourself.

Anchor

Why can't you just park it up and turn the neons on etc, i'm sure people will still look!

vh-holden

http://www.ledshoponline.com/under_car_led...t_kit.htm#legal

DZ

1. Because i dont want to sit around in Macca's carparks and servo's all night.
2. Because i dont have to because they're not illegal.
3. Because the Forrie is a drivers car, not a show pony.



I wonder who told them it was illegal to have them on whilst in motion?
The coppers maybe?
Maybe even the same coppers who tried to convince me they are illegal.

I might contact that store and ask for a copy of the court documents that they got when they were convicted in a court of law for having them on whilst in motion.

vh-holden

seriously, why would a shop selling a product tell potential customers that they are illegal?

DZ

The same reason so many in here are trying to convince me that they are illegal. People have become so afraid of the cops that they will accept most things that pour out of their mouths no matter how ridiculous they are.

In all honesty tho, I really dont care who takes this info as correct or who believes the police. It really is all about me in the end. Whether I have to pay $75 and cop 1 point, or not. And I personally believe that the cops have got it wrong. So I'll see soon.

Rookie ROX

I'm confused as to what that website has to do with anything?

I mean they state that from the legislation that they're legal, and then go further to say that they're illegal? The only thing they clarify is that you cannot have FLASHING lights. That is you can't have your neons pulsating with the music, but you can if it's not.

And a shop would tell customers that as their way of trying to get rid of any liability someone could argue they have. If someone sells me a product and doesn't tell me it's illegal, I could argue that it was their responsibility to inform me of that, and therefore they should pay my fine. Not that likely, but possible.

ROCK ON
R~R

silvia-sideways

Its actually a section referring to vehicles which are NOT exempt vehicles



like DZ said

Moggy

This is an interesting subject, and although specifically about neons can be carried over to any other thing someone is defected for, and they think is actually legal.

I have a question; If say you take your neon case to court and the court rules that the neons are legal, can other people then refer to this decision to prevent them being defected for the same thing? Please excuse my ignorance as I haven't studied law, but I am interested...

brad

didnt know so much shit could be dribbled about neons hahah well done guys youve realy out done your self this time

DZ

Not being a law student or lawyer either, I cant say 100% sure, but as far as I am aware, the laws of precedence apply to this. So if it does go to court (which the officer doesnt want) and I win, then I am pretty sure than precedence will have been set.



So Brad, if you were fined for something and you could find "proof" that it wasnt in fact illegal, you wouldnt care? You'd just roll over and accept that the nice policey man must be smarter/tougher/sexier than you so you should do what he says and not argue?

Forget the fact that this thread is about under car lighting for a second and just think of it in terms of peoples legal rights and responsibilities.

Or, more to the point, why bother posting in the thread if you think its such a waste of time?

vh-holden

the problem i have, is that you have given this information as being correct and accurate, when no one is really sure if it is or not. You admit that it is up to the courts when you take it there.

DZ

I can see your point. If someone comes on here, reads what I've posted and takes it as absolute truth, then gets fined for it, its my fault. The difference being that I havent just used my opinion or interpretation of the laws, I've used the QLD governments interpretation of the laws to back up what I thought.

All I've really done is dug up some documents, done a bit of reading, and posted those documents on here. Its up to everyone else on here as to whether they have enough faith to push it for themselves, or whether to take the cops word for it and do as they're told. Me personally, I'm going to push it as far as I can, thats just what I do. Everyone else is free to make their own decision based on the evidence I've laid before them.

tango955

BTW precidence is not set in a Magistrates Court decision. If you went as far as the Supreme Court then you would get precidence. So every single person who gets defected is going to have to contest their ticket in Court. I still stand by my previous posts. The reality is all aftermarket lighting is illegal for road use. Yes this includes spotlights etc. Look at the packaging next time your in the shop. No Court in this country will favour the on road use of neons as they are a distraction to the vast majority of drivers. And I ask again is it really worth getting pulled over everytime a cop sees your car?
And another point the section of legislation i quoted refers to ADR guidelines and rulings. The original quote you posted is neither of these. its nothing more than an internal e-mail to QT inspectors. If you want to take this to Court then I would strongly suggest reading the ADR's first hand. Believe me I speak from experience i'll put my hand up as someone whos been reamed for undercar lighting (in my case blue) when i was young dumb and full of cum.

silvia-sideways

its called "precedent" and it is principle which is followed after all levels of decision making in the courts, its just that a magistrate will not set a precedent if there is already a principle laid down in a similar case from higher in the court heirarchy...

the section that I quoted is from the regulations themselves, not some internal email

tango955

"precedent" cannot be set at a Magistrate level, which is the point i was making even if this is upheld it has no impact on other defectees. I was refering to the material in the original post btw which wasnt taken from legislation! Any modification to a road vehicle that hasnt been engineer approved or is not ADR compliant will be defected. Neons are not ADR compliant.

silvia-sideways

dude, precedent can be set at any level of the court system, however, a decision on a new point of law may be easily overturned on appeal by another judge, or a full court simply because the magistrates decision is not of binding precedent (as per a high court decision) but is generally merely a persuasive judgement. however where a superior court confirms the magistrates decision, that decision clearly becomes the basis of the precedent.

anyways, i wasnt sure of which post you were referring to, my bad. the section of the legislation that I quoted to you specifically allows for other lighting or reflectors to be fitted to a vehicle in certain and limited circumstances even where those items are not covered by or recognised by the ADR's.

Mr_RS4

TOOL

sbRRS

i hear you just couldnt have blue/red..that way no confusion with the police.

Rookie ROX

^^^ There's a lot more to it, and reading the whole topic will help.

But yes, no blue fullstop, red may only be seen from the rear of the car. White only from the front.

And I meant to mention it before - DZ I appreciate the withdrawl of certain comments, I do understand what you were/are trying to do, and I also agree that it did seem to get a bit heated. But it seems no matter how hard we try, it still goes offtopic

ROCK ON
R~R

DR1F7

I think this topic has run its course. Its full of lil 15 year olds threatening to kick cops doors in and misinformed information.

?

TwinCam16

Agreed, its going no where.

4teecal

Yo're right. And that is why the cops love us so much...punks mouthing off...............