Grunt V Boost - Simple poll  

blackout

Quote from R34 Skyline Versus Charger R/T and Ford's Typhoon.

[b]The Result[b]
You just about need a physics degree and a wealth of driving talent to fully exploit the R34 skyline - and a minimum of $80,000 in your pocket - but the Nissan is an awesome car both in terms of outright peformance and underlying engineering.
The Charger R/T E49? It's both irresponsible and impractical to malign an important piece of automotive history by using it every day. We know Nick doesn't (the guy who owns it) - he drives one of his other dozen-or-so cars, or the company Magna if he has to park somewhere.
If you had to own just one car from this awesome trio, FPV's F6 Typhoon is the pick. You can't discount its enormous all-round appeal. But the big question: where will the Typhoon be in three decades? Revered as a classic in the way those in the know regard the E49 today, or reduced to a footnote?
It's been a thrill to meet FPV's new turbo hero - it's undoubtedly the best car here, by miles ... even if it's not as memorable a drivre as its iconic six-cylinder peers."

They must hate Typhoons!

Second to that, Fords Typhoon should also fall under the Turbo category in this debate.

psi999

I thought i read earlier on that we weren’t comparing R8 Vs E8?

Just 200kw turbo or 300kw aspirated.

As for the facts,

Evo 8 - 195kw, 355 NM torque

R8 - 305kw, 530 NM torque

I know which one i'd choose, and it aint turbo..... infact comparing the two motors (with both remaining standard) anyone looking for peak power / torque / drivability would be a fool to take the E8 4g63 IMO.

The Pupat

I should have rephrased how does a power output and how a motor creates that power affect.

All of those are specific to a certain car/motor.

The question here was would you prefer 300kW made by grunt or 200kW made by turbo boost. I don't see wieght mentioned anywhere or CofG so I would assume both are the same. Therefore I'll take the one with more 100kW and better throttle response thanks.

57EAM

i wwould take the r8 because i won't drive anything other then a holden for one, and the fact its hands down better.

psi999

What about if you were given the choice of a new Ford FPV XR6T or a 1986 Holden Camira?

Still loyal?

57EAM

welllll, there always a exception.

The Pupat

I would take the Camira if it were turbocharged.

Cause from what I can gather from this thread, Turbos make cars handle awesome.

blackout

In terms of my situation and what cars I like - I'd take an XR6T slightly modified to my standards over anything at the moment...

57ING

..........and everyone wants a car that can drift for some reason on this site. Id rather get around the corner faster and smoother IMO.

Seismic

A n/a car that produces 300kW has gotta be damn heavy! 200kW is pretty moderate for boosting but an equation from physics classes comes floating back to me...

F(force) = M (mass) x A (acceleration)

rearrange the equation a little bit and you get:

boosted 4cyl nismo = V8 SS ute + f$%^-off acceleration

It's so much nicer to be sitting low in something light pissing off old farts who thought that nothing could beat their V8

blackout

Yeah that is something that annoys me about this website.

The Pupat

You're in high school right.

Engines don't make cars heavy. I would bet that a turbo 4 with all the bits required to run it wouldn't wiegh a whole lot less than a V8.

Daz_V6si

Go the 300Kw non turbo (ie: the LS2 Clubby).... No contest....

Evo 8... please, take away the AWD....then whataya have???

Seismic

Actually ... no. That was a long time ago.
And I'd take that bet ... Holden are only just starting to get the thermal engineering right on their alloy V8s. That is, when the bloody pistons actually fit the bore!

Stuit

saying that 'if you take away the AWD from an evo you have nothing' is like saying 'take away 4 of the 6 litres from the v8 engine and what do you have?' HSV use big litre engines to make power and go fast, mitsubish and subaru etc. use small turbocharged engines with AWD to go fast.

IMO if i had to choose between an xr6t, an evo 8, or an r8, its hands down evo every time. its got everything, is faster than the others, and has the potential to go even faster.

was the poll always 200kw WRC car?? theyre not exactly street legal, but they have pretty much no turbo lag and are extremely light, so i would choose the WRC car.

57ING

Like to see some of the dyno queens take this thing on around a track, this car clearly fits under the 300kw "grunt" banner.
Need I remind people of the Nations Cup series, cant remember the last time I saw a Evo get up over a Porsche in that racing series.

"The 2004 911 GT3 is rated at 380 (SAE) horsepower (at 7,400 rpm) and at 285 lb.-ft. of torque at 5,000 rpm. In first, second, third and fourth gears, the engine revs to 8,200 rpm before its computerized rev limiter is activated. Eighty percent of the engine’s maximum torque is available at as few as 2,000 rpm. For purposes of comparison, the 2004 Porsche 911 is rated at 315 horsepower (SAE), and the 2004 Porsche 911 Turbo provides 415 horsepower (SAE). In track testing, the 2004 Porsche 911 GT3 accelerates from a standing start to 60 mph (97 km/h) in 4.3 seconds and achieves 100 mph (161 km/h) in only 9.4 seconds.

To balance this power, the GT3 is equipped with 13.78-inch (350 mm) front brake discs and six-piston fixed calipers that increase the contact area between the pads and the discs." Porsche website

dohboy

welll my olds have an r8 vy clubsport and i think that it goes pretty fucken hard for what it is. i like turbos but would choose an 8 over a turbs anyday, just depending what it was. but huffers i still niice

Mr Nissan Cima

Boost all the way...

Minus the show off valve

The Pupat

A 4g63 weighs 86 kg BUT that is without the intercooler the turbo all the piping the waterspray and all the other bits needed to make any grunt.

A LS1 weighs in at 170 and the only major weight needed to get that to run is the radiator.

I think it would be fair to say that both would need the same amount of cooling to run so it's null weight.

74 kilo's is nothing in a thousand plus kilo car when you make 50% more power.

On another note an SR20 with all the big bits to make grunt weighs basically the same as a VH45.

psi999

SR20 stock with turbo and intake manifild is ~150kgs, 4G63 would have to be similar (maybe even heavier due to cast iron block & not alloy like SR20).

VY2NV

Id go for the Grunt,

Already had boost...now im getting grunt!!!

The Pupat

Well I did find that on a yank forum. Probably don't know how to use a scale.

warney

is this a bitch fight....300 is more than 200 so the 300Kw is the go

"if you drop a pebble and a screwed up bit of paper from a 20th level which 1 would land 1st??? the both would land at the same time ...


people dont be fooled coz it says turbo

the red krawler

You had 195rwkw.... The 300kw GTOs have 300fwkw, which equates to around 210rwkw, given 30% RWD drive train loss..

The GTO weighs 1710kg
A 2J Supra weighs 1565kg

So with a +15rwkw (serious guestimette based on factory supplied figures which tend to be... generous), the GTO has to haul around another ~150kg.

To me that sounds like a fairly even match, with the bias slightly toward the Supra. The factors that would decide things more than anything here would be gearing, aerodynamics and certainly "top end". If the GTO was stock, I cant see the exhaust being particuarly free flowing up top, thus becoming the limiting point.

73RRA

turboez 4 life maing!!!!111


Sorry i havent nothing of interest to add here

s13viper

ummm 200kw WRC motor(which are actually 225kw odd) (as the topic states) makes a nice 600odd NM of torque

225kw + 600nm of torque(@4000rpm) = one very healthy engine(very expensive too)

or 300kw HSV with its 550odd nm or torque ...its alot but its less than a WRC car


id have almost any car with a WRC engine

blackout

I think Krawler just pwned.

the red krawler

Way to have a car that requires a rebuild once a month :S

Remember the RS escorts? Released as a batch of 200 (iirc) simply to allow it to run in a class of group b rally cars.

Gave something like 700hp from a 2.fuckall litre engine, but only ran for around 1000 hours of full throttle due to the stupidly high stress levels put on everything.

What a car.

blackout

I think Krawler just pwned again.

s13viper

yes they dont last long.....but that wasnt part of the topic was it

a 200kw 600nm WRC engine would own against most things

hi_lux

s13viper what about in an endurance race .

blackout

Well we all know what the 427 Monaro did in the Bathurst 24 hour...

Not even the lamborghini could keep up with it, only got to catch up as the monaro slowed down for a corner..

Then the monaro's torque just said BYEEEEEEEEEEE

SupraCrazy

You can buy a Lamborghini if you had the $$$ but where can you buy a 427 Monaro ? Not from a Holden dealership that's for sure.

At the end of the day this thread is comparing apples & oranges. However I'd still choose a turbo cause of a sudden rush of power. Which I dig.

blackout

Yeah, I wasn't outling the fact you could buy it, just the difference in the outright power of the 7.0ltr engine:P

HYPERformance B4

there is no replacement for displacement, especially when the displacement has boost. cubes + forced induction = power.

your talking about power, if the topic was "would you take a 300kw N/A car over a 300kw turbo car " it would be a different story, your not asking about the other factors to be considered, like cars weight, gearing (torque), and suspension setups, which is what goes along way to building a quick street car. for my sooby, I'd love to get a EG33 and stroke it to 3.7lts and put a couple of garretts on there, now that would be power.