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 P Plate Restrictions - Done to death I know but hoping for a decent conversation.  

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Espress
  • Espress
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Post #1 post 23rd December 2010 - 06:24 PM
I have been on P plates for 3 years now but in less than a month I will graduate to my full license. I know the majority of people on here agree with keeping P platers out of high powered cars is a good idea and I cant say i disagree. But these laws definitley need an overhaul, it is clear that the people who came up with these laws don't know much about cars and as such, shouldn't have been put in charge.

In doing some research for this thread I came across this: http://www.racq.com.au/__data/assets/pdf_f...estrictions.pdf

Its a good read and basically goes into detail about how the current method in determining a high powered vehicle is ridiculous.

Im not the best writer so you will have to put up with my disjointed argument lol.

Ill start with my situation, I drive a 93 manual 4.0 falcon which I am just using as a daily while I wait until i can legally drive a 2001 wrx wagon, Ill start by saying this thing is a deathtrap, the brakes are shocking (also has no ABS), the car handles terribly and the wheels (1 wheel lol) will spin under WOT in the wet, (Ill also add that the car is well maintained and in good condition) Not that I have tried but I am fairly confident that It could get to at least 180kmh. Going from an automatic awd liberty to this car also made me realise that accelerating while exiting a roundabout in the wet is not a good idea, something that could easily unstick an inexperienced driver.

The Wrx I am intending to by is a whole lot safer, not only does AWD, better brakes and better handling add to my saftey but this impreza chassis is wildly regarded as being very good in a crash. Accelerating to avoid a collision (It does happen) is also safer due to lack of wheelspin and more rapid progress.

The reality of weather you should be in a high powered vehicle or not comes down to your attitude, not your age.

I often see dickheads in their automatic falcodores skidding around, and guess what, its more often than not a 40yr old mullet wearing tattooed bogan than a young person.

I could go nearly 200kmh in both cars if I wanted to, the only difference is I am less likely to be killed or kill someone in the wrx.

So basically I have been a car enthusiast for the last 10 years but cannot drive the cars I love because of some bullshit blanket rule.

Anyway there are some other points that I have probably forgotten (terrible writer) but I would like to hear some well thought out opinions on this rule and perhaps some personal experiences.

Thanks guys.

--------------------
Selling HID for R33, A dvd Headunit and an old falcon, check topics.
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YrocLeumas
Post #2

yep I agree, needs to be revised, but I'm sure everyone will be just as displeased with whatever revisions they make.

Espress
Post #3

Heres a silly one for ya.

Mark 5 Golf GTI is slower than Mark 5 Golf R32.

The GTI is banned simply because it has a turbo, probably safer aswell because it does't have that massive v6 lump over the front wheels.

clutch-monkey
Post #4

modding the V6 is costly.. the GTI gets easy gains from aftermarket bits though.
the R32 is also heavier and AWD.

Espress
Post #5

QUOTE (clutch-monkey @ Dec 24 2010, 01:17 PM) *
modding the V6 is costly.. the GTI gets easy gains from aftermarket bits though.
the R32 is also heavier and AWD.


Oh really? Didn't even know they were AWD.

Ya I guess thats the only reason to ban turbos as a whole, the fact that more power is simply a boost increase away.

obey
Post #6

I agree with you OP.

I made similar points in another thread.

stockmy00
Post #7

Safer thanks to the AWD ... but the power in the WRX is very dangerous in the wrong hands. Contrary to popular belief unmodified WRX's are actually very ordinary at handling.. they do however have endless amounts of grip (ty to AWD).

Eg. a rookie driver jumps in a wrx and plants his foot heading towards a corner thinking his elite WRX with AWD will sort it all out for him... hits the apex way over speed... massive amounts of understeer.... ends up being pwned by a telephone pole. etc...

They are a very safe performance car.. but as with ANY vehicle, in the wrong hands can be made into a weapon.

INVU
Post #8

The gov need to realise that it comes down to driver, and not the vehicle... the more you love your car the safer you will drive. you dont see a $150 000 car ripping skids on a saturday night because they love their car and dont want to ruin it.

TwinCam16
Post #9

What a crock of shit.

If you were THAT worried about safety, go buy the RS non turbo version.

all those same features you talk about, but in a p plate legal version.

It's YOUR choice to drive an old death trap coon bus destined for the residents of Inala.

McGnarly
Post #10

maybe they should buy WRX's?

dazzazoo
Post #11

QUOTE (TwinCam16 @ Dec 24 2010, 02:47 PM) *
It's YOUR choice to drive an old death trap coon bus destined for the residents of Inala.

it wasnt my choice to buy the pos i have im only a 1st year and i dont have 000s to buy a decent car its not germany where they get incentives to buy newer safer cars

TwinCam16
Post #12

The point is, you don't NEED a powerful car to be safe.

It's a lame cop out.

Rancher
Post #13

Sigh, another P plater who totally missed the point. Its not about speed, but rather. The time it takes to get to those speeds. It may take you 5 minutes to get to 200KM/h in a P plate legal car, and feel a hell of alot more dangerous, then say, a WRX that gets to those speeds in 15 seconds, and feels better. I doubt a P plater is going to throw a 2t barge into a corner like he would something turbo charged, and with suspension.

Regardless of how fast and safe the car is. You're still going to do stupid shit in it, and at speed. At least if you're in a 1.6-3.5ltr vehicle, it takes you longer to get there, and less likely to reach those speeds on suburban streets.

TwinCam16
Post #14

QUOTE (Rancher @ Dec 24 2010, 02:57 PM) *
Sigh, another P plater who totally missed the point. Its not about speed, but rather. The time it takes to get to those speeds. It may take you 5 minutes to get to 200KM/h in a P plate legal car, and feel a hell of alot more dangerous, then say, a WRX that gets to those speeds in 15 seconds, and feels better. I doubt a P plater is going to throw a 2t barge into a corner like he would something turbo charged, and with suspension.

Regardless of how fast and safe the car is. You're still going to do stupid shit in it, and at speed. At least if you're in a 1.6-3.5ltr vehicle, it takes you longer to get there, and less likely to reach those speeds on suburban streets.


THIS!

Rancher
Post #15

QUOTE (THE_OTHER_SIDE @ Dec 24 2010, 09:33 AM) *
Hey all, here is a story thats pretty upsetting. Last night my family and i where looking at christmas lights we where in springwood as there was a whole street done the kids were getting hungry so we stopped in at macdonalds. Any way there was a black suburu wrx number plates 534 ghr it had 2 guys and 2 young girls aged from 14 to 16 all drinking , the driver was a (p) plater also. They were being smart arses to everyone yelling at people and carring on . Any way we headed up to roachdale about 2 hours later coming home there was a crash behind cocos (Rancher, and any who knows this area, knows thats a very small suburban street...). Was 4 cop cars , fire brigade, 2 cop wagons , 1 forensic unit and a big blanket over this wrx that was smashed so hard into the pole the witness said all 4 instinalty dead. It looked so bad i feel so sorry for those kids. You could see there family members down there screaming and crying it was devistating.

Just remeber doesent matter how fast your car is , how good it looks slow down guys, Have a merry christmas, Not a christmas were your family is suffering .


My point, EXACTLY. This happened only just last night. And you thought WRX's were safe.... If it were up to me, I would ban all RWD vehicles totally.

dazzazoo
Post #16

you both failed to see my point ... alot of young people cant afford modern safer cars which have better impact protection, airbags, crumple zones ect which increases your chances to survive an accident compared to a 15-20yo shitter that most young people own today ...

TwinCam16
Post #17

QUOTE (dazzazoo @ Dec 24 2010, 03:11 PM) *
you both failed to see my point ... alot of young people cant afford modern safer cars which have better impact protection, airbags, crumple zones ect which increases your chances to survive an accident compared to a 15-20yo shitter that most young people own today ...


Your point has NOTHING to do with p plate restrictions.

Rancher
Post #18

Your point was you cant afford to buy a new car. Re-read what I said.. And tell me where it was directed at you. Also. You're full of shit. VT commodores (Air bags, side impact bars, side impact air bags, passenger air bags, ABS, some even have TC) are Fucking cheap these days. You can pick one up for like, 2 grand. About how much most people are trying to palm off their POS lasers and shit.

If you're telling me, you cant afford 2-3 grand for a P plate car as safe as the early model commodores, and can only afford $600 for a laser. Then.. Sucks to be you. This was directed at you.

TwinCam16
Post #19

But they can afford 20+k for a WRX rancher...

Don't you understand!!!!!!!

mitchob
Post #20

lmao, vts arent 2 grand, most vrs which are a 94 modle are still 2 grand, i see this dude point exactly, that most cars now are above p plater restrictions with the most safety, and im sure not all tguys that arent faggot dont wanna drive around a pos yaris or something, not everyone can afford 5 - 10 grand cars on there ps, and if they can either there family is rich or they have saved up a pre long time, most of them are flogging there arses out with an apprenticeshiop that pays like 300 a week or are still at school or uni.

Espress
Post #21

QUOTE (TwinCam16 @ Dec 24 2010, 02:47 PM) *
What a crock of shit.

If you were THAT worried about safety, go buy the RS non turbo version.

all those same features you talk about, but in a p plate legal version.

It's YOUR choice to drive an old death trap coon bus destined for the residents of Inala.


Ok, you missed my point entirely, This could be because I didn't convey my thoughts across properly , or you were going to jump down my throat regardless.

Im not purley interested in safety, im just saying it would be easier for me to get out of shape in my falcon than it would be in a wrx.

What's with the 2 posters saying im full of shit ect? Those are my opinions and in my circumstances they apply to me. So how can they be "a crock of shit ect"?

AssViolator
Post #22

Hey guy. I can drive turbo. Not a p plater.

I think my wrx is very safe but the power can make you do stupid things. If you want an 01 wagon go buy an RS version leave the turbo cars to us men.

TwinCam16
Post #23

That's a stupid point.

The vehicle is older, with nowhere near as much technology in it.

The p plate restrictions have NOTHING to play when it comes to missing out on saftey features.

What next? you will try to say that you should be driving an XR6 turbo cause they have traction control, even though the p plate legal XR6 also has it.

Espress
Post #24

QUOTE (Rancher @ Dec 24 2010, 02:57 PM) *
Sigh, another P plater who totally missed the point. Its not about speed, but rather. The time it takes to get to those speeds. It may take you 5 minutes to get to 200KM/h in a P plate legal car, and feel a hell of alot more dangerous, then say, a WRX that gets to those speeds in 15 seconds, and feels better. I doubt a P plater is going to throw a 2t barge into a corner like he would something turbo charged, and with suspension.

Regardless of how fast and safe the car is. You're still going to do stupid shit in it, and at speed. At least if you're in a 1.6-3.5ltr vehicle, it takes you longer to get there, and less likely to reach those speeds on suburban streets.


I see your point about being less likely to get there in suburban streets, this is a valid point but it also applies to all drivers, not just P platers. Like I said, it takes an idiot to try and tip any car into a corner at 200kmh. I think it has much more to do with the person's attitude than if they are experienced or not.

"Sigh, another P plater who totally missed the point." I could of posted this in like 2 weeks when in on my blacks, would you still feel the same way?

W1NT3R
Post #25

All i hear is winge winge winge....

What your saying doesnt even make sence? A turboed model rather than non turbo model is safer? Ah ok.

Do your research before posting again, kthx

Espress
Post #26

QUOTE (TwinCam16 @ Dec 24 2010, 03:47 PM) *
That's a stupid point.

The vehicle is older, with nowhere near as much technology in it.

The p plate restrictions have NOTHING to play when it comes to missing out on saftey features.

What next? you will try to say that you should be driving an XR6 turbo cause they have traction control, even though the p plate legal XR6 also has it.


I agree with you, P plate laws have nothing to do with missing out on saftey features, I was just using that as an example in my OP, trying to point out it is down to the attitude of the driver.

(probably went into too much detail making it look like my main point, inb4 oh noes backpedal). XR6 are a great example of the P plate laws being stupid, these things get to 100 pretty quick 7 sec range I believe as opposed to an XR5 which would probably do the same 7 sec 0-100.

INVU
Post #27

QUOTE (Espress @ Dec 24 2010, 03:54 PM) *
I agree with you, P plate laws have nothing to do with missing out on saftey features, I was just using that as an example in my OP, trying to point out it is down to the attitude of the driver.

(probably went into too much detail making it look like my main point, inb4 oh noes backpedal). XR6 are a great example of the P plate laws being stupid, these things get to 100 pretty quick 7 sec range I believe as opposed to an XR5 which would probably do the same 7 sec 0-100.


my xr6 na, 6 secs...

EDIT: obviously with a good launch

jakefake
Post #28

Im a P plater and agree that it all comes down to the driver. I do not agree with the current restrictions but they have to do something to keep us semi under control.

I've owned an 05 VZ sv6 and now currently have an 02 Liberty RX.

The sv6 has 190+kW and the RX has 115kw
When i had the sv6 i knew it was fast and it bloody was, but my mindset was that all it takes is a little bit of stupidity in the wet and your gone.

Although when i got the liberty a few things changed.
Because it was AWD i started going into corners and roundabouts a little harder then normal trying to push it a bit harder. Its stupid of me but it just happens.

My mate also owns a 90's lazer and he guns it around like hes a race driver and its bloody scary being it in. Feeling safe is a tottaly different concept to being safe.

It doesn't matter what car you drive, so again it all comes down to the driver.
If you want to do stupid shit, go to open areas' carparks/private property.


I have no idea what the fuck i just wrote haha :\

benji_xrt
Post #29

I believe idiots will be idiots no matter the car, give them a shit one and they will only try harder, but the problem is when you let these idiots have access to cars which can cause trouble when pushed.

I dont think all p-platers are bad drivers or will do stupid thing if given the chance behind a powerful car, but there are some real tards out there who feel that because they have a turbocharger or V8 that they have to race everyone and prove how awesome they are.

IMO, when you a P-plater have a cheap affordable/safe car as bets are you WILL crash, it could be a dint or a write off but as you get older and the plod dont take more notice of you then you can get your powerful car and hopefully you have learnt enough to respect the car your in and keep the racing/drifting to a track or at the very least somewhere where your not going to harm anyone else.

Espress
Post #30

Good points from both you guys.

Ive been a sensible driver for the past 3 years, I even owned a mildy worked v6 5 speed commodore which could definitely get to dangerous speeds relatively quickly but it doesnt matter which car I drive I am always going to be sensible.

Its the same for people that drive like idiots, doesn't matter what car they drive, just the other day I watched an older man rip a massive skid in his VX SS, I would never do that.

The whole law makes little to no sense, You cant even argue that the power is too much for inexperienced drivers because all it takes is to be over 25, doesnt matter if you drive a charade while your on your L's than hop straight into an F6 as long as your 26, its fine. Don't know about you guys but I know plenty of retarded late 20 somethings.

I feel so strongly about this law, in a few weeks ill be on the other side but Im sure ill feel the same. My fiance won't even be able to drive my WRX but she is an even more sensible driver than me. This means if we go out and have dinner with a drink we have to take her focus.

Doesn't make sense.

EFI Tech
Post #31

Sure, a better handling car is safer when driven at the same speeds as the shit car. However, if you push it just as hard, you will be going a whole lot faster when you lose control. Everyone should just learn in a shitbox. And be extra careful in the wet... I almost lost it today but that's because the r34 had a. bald rear tyres and b. I had just hung up the phone, was driving with one hand - was quick enough to countersteer but not quick enough to bring the wheel straight again, so it slid the other way. Lesson learnt is all i can say. Oh and sorry to the other motorists near me!

iBrettowski
Post #32

who cares?

end of the day, government will do what they wanna do.

Gives the P platers 3 years to save up for there '"safer" wrx, then the new open drivers speeds to the shithouse, they get caught, they pay the fines and the government still wins anyway?

Benny_boy92
Post #33

Here we go again. I'm a P plater. I think the rules are fine. Sure they are a little bit "stupid" but at the end of the day, they are right. I agree it's all about the driver. A P Plater driver could be a awesome driver and a 40 year old might be shit. But at the end of the day, a 40 year old driver has more experience than a 17 year old driver. Doesn't generally mean he is better driver but he's had many more years of driving than a 17 year old.

Basically what i'm saying is, It all comes down to the driver. If your going to be a tool and crash your car it's your loss, weather your a P plater or not. You could be the BEST driver in the world and still prang you car.

TBH, the rules are not going to change, so you should just put up with it.

As for safety, If you don't do stupid shit in your old car, your safe. If you get a WRX with more safety features, it doesn't mean you're going to be safe. If you do stupid things, sure the car might be better off if someone runs into you in a newer car, but as it's already been discussed, it's your own fault if you cant afford to get something "safer".

obey
Post #34

Has there ever even been any study to pro e that a p plater is safer in an old flacon than a wrx? OP never said anything about P plate laws making you miss out on safety features at all.

Rancher
Post #35

If you have a look at death results over the last few years, they have dropped from 17-21 compared to the years before P plate restrictions. Its around somewhere, go google it.

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