Quick Question- Holden 186 Motor - Unleaded  

DeadSled

From what i've heard, its just to do with the head, and more specifically the valves.

Not sure how much it costs though, but i'm sure it can't be too expensive.

Although granted, if it was expensive.. you've just gotta do the maths and work out how long you have to buy the lead replacement before it adds up to the cost of getting the head converted, and work out which is a better option for you.

eh-buddy

to run unleaded get the head done its wont cost you that much but you will have to run premium anyway to stop "pinging" under load plus it will still help to run flashlube as well

Bradz65HD

buy a BLUE/BLACK 202 out of a early commodore... Unleaded motors and transplant what you want. I found the blue motor to be a better motor and easy to get parts for.

ALWAYS run high octane petrol and if you are really worried, run a flashlube once a month or so.

eh-buddy

the red blue and black are all leaded engines the first unleaded 6 holden made was the vl

but if your going to swap heads over you have to change inlet and exhaust manifolds as the red is 6 port and the blue/black is 12 port

the black motor has plugs for a air pump and there not realy a good design the blue breaths a heap better and flows better than the red

just get the head rebuilt using hardend valve seats and bronze guides shouldnt cost more than $250 $300

i just had one rebuilt by murray walker in slacks creek and it works a treat

young_Gun

Thanks for that info guys..
One more question.. how much should i look to budget for a warm 186? Want to get something built with a nice cam, port & polish, carby etc if someone has a rough price that would be great.

eh-buddy

well how deep are your pockets

186 block +60 thou run a blue motor head 35/75 cam or bigger then you add roller rockers ballancing ect and your for a few bucks

me ive built a 202 using a few good bits and its 258bhp and that using old style gear im getting a jz holden6 head thats alloy and i should be putting out around 450bhp with 55mm webbers and stroking the 202 to 214 cube the head is 4.5k with manifolds

sounds a lot but get a quote on a cast iron head to be fully ported withe good gear and still come up short on reliable hp it works out better

i know i went off track a little but how much it costs you is how much you want to spend

young_Gun

Wasnt looking to spend a massive amount maybe around $1000-1200.. i just wanted to give the 186 a bit more kick and make it sound tougher/lumpy (if possible for a decent price)

WattsyLX

A wise old bloke who was a bit of a whizz with Holden straight 6's once told me that the old 186/202s had built up that much lead deposits on the valves over the years that you could probably drive another 200,000km on straight unleaded before you had any troubles!

I tested his theory and drove an old 202 Commodore daily driver around for 2 years, averaging around 1000km a week, on straight, garden variety unleaded and the old thing never missed a beat!

TuffVC

For up to 1200 you would be doing a lot of the work yourself...might get a head tidied up for that,cam and alloy timing gear,and a second hand Holley 350....would still need extractors and a decent exhaust for it all to work...

eh-buddy

nice

dark_fool

Have a look at this site it helped my mate out when he was building his 202. And it gives you a good idea of what basic mods give power.

http://www.carpoint.com.au/Tig/Minisite/Mi...tau&id=7229

young_Gun

Cheer for that. Anyone else got some tips on what mods to do to the 186?

grandmasterb

Sorry but +60 is ridiculous and shows just how tired the block is if you've had to go that far. +20 is what we run with in any or our race motors (sometimes +40) and if have to go further then we change blocks.

Size of boring is not a competition and i laugh at the blokes that say "yeah she's running +60 mate" like its there way of stating that's how there making power

The higher the bore, the more tied the block is!!!

For $1000 your not going to be able to do much so maybe worth waiting till you can budget/spend more and do it all at once. Better still buy a stock 186 and build that up as you go then drop it in when its ready, that way you can still use the car.


To give you an idea in one of my FC's that im building it will be running a hot 186 +40" with 308 duration solid cam (44/85), balanced, starfire rods, flat top duralite pistons, head to suit unleaded, electronic distributer, cain four barrel manifold with 465 avenger holley, xu1 headers with tuned pipe's

In the race car (EH) we make 198.3rwks out of the 179 and what do you know its only +20

Put it this way, a basic head build will cost you $1000+ so like i said earlier, save more and build it up gradually as you can then swap it all over.

Cheers Ben

DeadSled

Between this thread, and seeing turbo'd 186's on Youtube last night, ive decided i'm going to build up my 186 that i've got sittin on my engine stand.

Cheers

grandmasterb

Nick you wont regret building a 186, there better than a dirty 202

young_Gun

Thanks for the info. I think i will just keep it stock ( for the moment anyway..) but get the head built for unleaded..

Anyone have suggestions for somewhere to go on the northside to get the head done?

DeadSled

Hey Ben not the first time i've heard that haha. You don't see many Kingswoods with a 186 though for some reason.

I'm still interested in the idea of a turbo red motor

I feel bad though, i'm traditional through and through, but the idea of it with a turbo is pretty sweet. Too bad i don't wana turn it into a manual though, cause its a fuckload of pissin around.

Oh well, i'll just throw a nice tough 186 into the HJ.

grandmasterb

Gotta love the way the old 6's rev

http://s87.photobucket.com/albums/k131/ben...lder_060609.flv

DeadSled

Haha.. thats pretty awesome.

I'm just thinkin.. i know most cars with a Blower are Autos, and most with a Turbo are Manual.. how well would a turbo'd Auto 186 or 202 go?

You can hook up a T350 to a red motor can't you?

Edit: Just had a thought.. Turbo'd 186 with a Full Manualised Auto.. how would that run? Be an interesting concept to put into my Kingswood eventually, just mine is an Auto so it has the Auto column / dash ect. I hate seeing old cars with a tea pot with the shifter mount there and no shifter.. looks so half finished and shit.

At the same time, don't really feel like putting a manual into the car either haha.

OIM.666

Had a mate with a 186 turbo/auto UC torana. Went okish. Nothing flash. He ran a 6 cyl Bob grant prepped trimatic. 12.8 at 115mph iirc.

DeadSled

Do you think its worth the effort? Or would it be better to bolt a blower onto a red motor instead?

racerphill

Absolutely no reason why you cant run an auto with a turbo or a manual with a supercharger, or vice versa.

As for turbo versus supercharger, well that comes down to personal preference. For me, it's supercharged all the way, but that's mainly because it seems more "old skool" to me. Also, the boost works right from idle - seen a lot of turbo cars get wasted at the drags because they sit there trying to get some boost pressure while the other car takes off down the track.

When it all comes down to it, they are both good. Like I said, personal preference.

Of course, even better than that would be to slot a nice V8 in there! NOTHING beats the sweet sound of a V8!!

phill

DeadSled

Phil,

I'm thinkin of havin my Chev as the Hot Rod (I want a Model A Coupe sometime soon as well.. but thats another story ), then the EK as my Kustom, and my HJ as my "Street Machiner" sorta thing. I was thinkin blown 186, or a 350.. gauges on the bonnet yada yada. Touggghhh.

racerphill

Yeah Nick,
Sounds like a cool plan.
I do have a real good mate who races a nostalgia type altered with a blown 186, and that thing is an animal. Would be a bit too much drama in a street car though! Of course you could do the same thing engine-wise, but just not go so mental. Then again, I think the 350 sounds like an even better proposition.
Phill

the_random_hero

If you do a turbo conversion correctly, there should be barely any noticeable boost threshold (I say threshold, not lag as that's the commonly used wrong term), and any loss in low down torque you get is highly offset by massive top end. IMO, if you've already got a torquey engine there's no real reason to throw a blower on it and turn your car into a stump puller. It's terrible to drive as a daily, and you put a lot more stress on the driveline.
A 186 with a twin-screw (Lysholm) blower is a much better alternative to your traditional Roots blower, a twin-turbo setup with something like T25 turbo's would also be great.
My 2c.