Hydraulic Lifters Vs Solid Lifters - wats the advantages/disadvantages?  

Rancher

Hydrolic have a tendency to go soft.. the valves won't open as far, especially at higher RPM. Solid are much more worth it. So, if you wanna put a large cam in.. Id look at doing the solid lifter stuff..

Not sure on the cost, or the parts.

random_ben7

If you are looking for massive power solid is the way to go
By massive I mean above 370 RWKW

turbomarch

umm... i don't know why you'd think that.. it depends more on how high you want to rev the thing... your not really going to gain anymore power out of the engine by going solid lifters. its more of a reliability thing.. the higher the revs the greater the chance of your hydraulics going soft and you throw a rocker arm... if your lucky you'll just need a new rocker arm.. if your unlucky you can cause damage to your cam/s and/or bend valves etc... believe me.. been their.. done that. and that was only revving to 7800rpm, with an engine making 330rwkw. not to sure how much its going to cost you in parts since the yen has headed south.. but i paid roughly $1500 for the hks lash killer kit and other neccessary parts to convert.

Streeter

sold lifters also need to be maintained. The main advantage of hydraulics is that they use the engines oil pressure to adjust to how much gap there is between the cam and the rocker/valves. Once you go solid you have to shim the difference and they quickly go out of tolerance and need to be redone.

younis

yeh they dont so much add power, its like you said, more of a reliability factor whilst being able to rev alot more

if its $1500 for the lash killer kit + accessories i think im gonna go ahead with the solid lifter as knowing myself i like to rev the shit outa the engine and the turbo im going mite b a tad laggy hence i wud like a decent spool range.

thx 4 da info mate, just wonderin is there any great disadvantages with using solid lifters?




yeh ive heard about the adjusting thing but how often does this need 2 b done?
and wen u say it needs 2 b adjusted, does this involve opening up the engine and taking the head apart again? or is this via timing or something simple by jus removing rocker cover?

Streeter

depends on a heap of factors so cant really say. how much lift does the cam have? how hard are you revving it etc... kinda the same as asking how long an engine lasts.

generally every few thousand kms would be a good idea to check it. although once they go out of adjustment they get pretty noisy so its not hard to know/realise.

usually adjustment is rockercover off and measuring the amount of gap you have... if its out then different shim needs to go in.

younis

sorry 4 noob question but wats a shim?

does replacing it require taking cams out?

seems like an annoying job for every few thousand k's

Streeter

Im getting lazy so I just grabbed the first site off a google search LOL

look like this in an sr...
http://www.mynismo.com/products/?id=5834

its not a big job, but if you are lazy and dont like routine maintenance then a high HP car isnt a good idea anyway

younis

mm i c
well if its something not that hard n i can do at home i guess it isnt a big deal

just dont wanna have 2 much trouble if im gonna have 2 remove cams etc to replace them and stuff

antonio

From what i have been told Solid Lifters are a must when pushing into the bigger power area, to the guy who said 370rwkw your on drugs!

Andrew from Ignition DVD has said a fair few times they are a necessitiy, if i was pushing over 250rwkw i would make it an option to upgrade upon altho i belive a custom drop in cam doesnt suit them so may need to grind it up.

younis

well ive been told my setup will make a daily reliable 400 rwhp but ill have a aggressive tune aswell making 450hp+

im definently gonna be wanting to rev the engine up to and probably over 8k so im guessing i shud go forward with the solid lifter conversion

bloodzkull

it's not about a power level.

think about it like this. if your making 100kw or 300kw and still only reving to the same amount the the lifter aren't really copping much more abuse, only some becuas the car with theoretically rev out quicker.

however if your going from say 7500rpm to 9000rpm or something they the extra load and requirments on the lifters to keep up is huge.

either way it seems your planning a decent build so may as well. you'd hate to have to spend all this money agian becuase you missed a small thing wouldn't you?

1200 ute

with 12 mm lift u have to go to solid lifters

333555rrr

is there such thing as "too much lift"???

is the larger the lift, the higher the efficicient rev range will b? can it cause damage to springs etc?
im looking at doing this to my rb25 aswell and was told that to much lift can b a bad thing, power wise and mechanically

turbomarch

stoney180

I chuckled too

Streeter

definitely. Its a compromise. generally the higher the lift specs of a cam the more power it will make higher up in the rev range, but the gains are minimal and the thrashing the valve train takes goes through the roof with higher rpm and high lift. So its just not worth it to go totally crazy with cams in a turbo car unless you are trying to ring the absolute max out of the engine.

younis

yeh thats exactly right
ive already spent shitloads on this engine build so mite aswell add the extra amount n get it done right the first time rather than paying for hydraulic cams valve springs then having to reopen the head and change everything over and buy a new pair of cams etc

but still no1 has answered my main question, wat new parts r required and how much do these parts cost roughly

Rookie ROX

Moved to Technical.

ROCK ON
R~R

iamhappy46

http://www.tomei-p.co.jp/_2003web-catalogue/e098_pivot2.html

HKS lash killer kit is over rated, the Tomei kit is better priced(roughly US$240 + freight + shims)

Since the GTiR(and SR20VET) uses solid pivots, you also have access to Nissan genuine parts for shims

With the turbo choices you have, being able to rev the motor harder will allow more power potential

younis

ah ok

as for the new parts needed, i know i will need solid pivots, new rockers, new valve guides etc but wat exactly is the list of parts?

also wat is a rough price for all these parts 2gether fitted into the head minus machining porting etc?

iamhappy46

The Tomei solid conversion kit is just that, nothing else needed Standard rockers are used and nothing else is required except for the valvesprings to be upgraded. Original valve guides and stem seals can be used. The Tomei Rocker Stopper kit 'can' be used but is not mandatory.

I have fitted these parts in under 3 hours including setting the correct shim heights. Broken down into 30 minutes to install solid lifters, around an hour per camshaft for setting the shims(8 shims per camshaft) and then last 30 minutes to check everything over again.

Your engine builder will have a better idea of how to quote you but as long as the valve springs are being changed, that part of the head is apart anyway so I dont see it costing much labour wise to perform while its all apart

I doubt it will cost you more than AUS$800 fully installed

younis

ahhh thats awsome so all thats needed is the solid pivots??
so it isnt a big hassle after all doing a solid lifter conversion is there?
ill be getting a crower valve spring + retainer kit which ive already ordered so basically im just gonna have to tell him to order the solid pivots n tell him im gonna go solid lifter conversion

as for the cams, wud u recommend me going with those cams or not? if not wat do u recommend?

iamhappy46

Thats all thats required, solid pivot kit AND the Procams to suit solid lifters:
http://www.tomei-p.co.jp/_2003web-catalogu...am_SR20DET.html

Those cams are a little narrow in their rpm range, the 260's would make it a little more streetable but think you need to discuss with your tuner as to what they think they can achieve. Outright power is one thing but making the car driveable at part throttle is another thing

What compression ratio are you looking at as well, as that will affect how deep the valve notches need to be with the cams but also affect driveability as well.

younis

for the compression i orginally wanted to go a .6mm headgasket and have a 9.1ish compression but i think my tuner recommended i go with the 1.2mm headgasket and go for a 8.5:1 compression

also is there a high possibility the valve guides will fail?
is there any gains in replacing the valve guides and stems with tomei parts? or is it a waste of money

because as u said its better to replace everything properly whilst its open but that being said i dont wanna have to replace it if its gonna be perfectly fine as it is

iamhappy46

Stem seals 'may' be part of the spring and retainer kit. If not, the OEM Nissan ones are fine.

Valve guides have advantages in that heat transfer can be inmproved upon which allows the valves to disappate heat better which means your reducing hot spots in the combustion chamber. For $500 a set + install though, they are definitely a hardcore part and I a yet to see a factory set fail.

1.6mm headgasket would be better to deshroud the valves with the lift your running but a 1.2mm will be fine. 8.5:1 compression should be fine as above 9:1 compression with those cams will have a major increase in dynamic compression. Just wanted to make sure you were not dropping below 8.3:1 compression

younis

ah ok thats great

so if it were u would u replace the valve guides? ill probably get a set of standard oem stems from nissan but as for the valve guides wud u replace them with the tomei?

ill b talking 2 engine builder 2moro to inform him of the changes

iamhappy46

No need for valve guides with what your doing, the stock ones will be fine.