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Phat535
  • Phat535
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  • From: Australia
Post #1 post 30th November 2007 - 07:54 PM
Hospitals have a foul tasting liquid they make people drink that have been bought in for overdoses etc. I'm not sure if it has another technical name but it is called active charcoal, the charcoal part absorbs what is left undissolved of the drugs or whatever is in your stomach. More interestingly the active component of it actually counters/neutralises (to an extent) chemicals in your body. Only took me 2 phone calls to find a place that sell it to the public over the counter and it's cheap, exactly the same stuff the hospitals buy... they were also happy to share with me the fact that if you held a mouthfull of that for a few seconds they feel you would test negative to any oral test.

I'm no expert and people will say anything to sell you something..... but I would imagine they know their product and what it is capable of, and hospitals use it so that's gotta say something.


This post has been edited by Phat535: Nov 30 2007, 08:08 PM
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TwinCam16
Post #2

dunno.gif

Philthy
Post #3

Sounds like someone with something to worry about.

dunno.gif

TwinCam16
Post #4

Appears that way... dunno.gif

Phat535
Post #5

Not me no, I've already said in other threads a few years ago maybe these laws would have worried me quite a bit but they don't bother me at all at the moment. And I also think these laws are a good thing, but only if they get it right. I'm sharing information that I thought people on the site might find interesting. Who knows there might be a medical student on here that will post and tell me I'm wrong, I'm happy to be proven wrong if I learn something new. Discussions can't be one sided, both the pros and cons of a new system like this should be examined thoroughly so the kinks can be worked out and it doesn't turn into yet another australian police knee jerk reaction that fails misserably because they didn't think it through

boozt
Post #6

I'm presuming if this were the case you'd have to rinse your mouth momentarily before the test is done. Considering how much you salivate etc it wouldn't work as far as i'm concerned.

Could be wrong though.

Phat535
Post #7


the way I see it this is going to be a hot topic for quite some time, Why not throw theories out there and have them proven true or false in it's infancy. Who knows someone might bring up a credible flaw in the system that if it wasn't pointed out could end in numerous people getting away with stuff and they wind up crashing a car and killing someone when they could have been stopped. Pointing out flaws forces people to fix them

QUOTE(boozt @ Dec 1 2007, 02:34 PM) [snapback]1281679141[/snapback]

I'm presuming if this were the case you'd have to rinse your mouth momentarily before the test is done. Considering how much you salivate etc it wouldn't work as far as i'm concerned.

Could be wrong though.


I thought of that but it's not simply washing the chemical from your saliva it apparently actually neutralises it, so unless you've had a 3 day bender and you don't actually wash your mouth out after the charcoal drink I wouldnt think there would be enough there to worry about. But time will tell I guess

TwinCam16
Post #8

I feel sorry for those people on the wieght drug duromine (sp?)....

Get ready for a whole lot of coppers thinking your off ya dial wink.gif

Phat535
Post #9

ps. guys who are pm'ing me to find out where to buy the active charcoal (yes I've already got multiple pms haha) I didn't start this thread so people could get away with it haha so no I'm not telling you where it's sold. But to be totally honest it took me maybe 10 minutes and 2 phone calls to find someone who knew what I was talking about and where to find it. Charcoal has many medicinal uses, use your brains

Another thing worth pointing out, for those amongst you who think you can just put something else in your saliva to get the tester an unknown reading, I've heard (unverified at this stage, can anyone clarify?) that if the tester gives a negative but suspicious reading you can be asked to go to a police station for a blood test, and you can't trick a blood test so sucks to be you if you listen to the rumours that a mouth full of vinegar or mouthwash will trick the test

boozt
Post #10

You're going to get RBT'd along with it so mouthwash isn't going to do you any favours.

TwinCam16
Post #11

What happens when someone with no tounge gets their turn...

DreamensioN
Post #12

With drink driving, the rules are clear. You have a as many drinks as your body can take - just as long as your under the 0.05 limit you're considered ok to drive.

Now...is there a limit with drugs? Probably not. So...now we have a "zero tolerance" society.

Lets not beat about the bush about it. People have been doing drugs ever since time began (in one form or another). Its part of human society whether you like it or not. Its just something that happens.

Now that we have that out of the way...

How accurate are these tests? What are the limits and tolerances so drivers can make an informed choice and decision? Say you're 40yrs old, and one day when you were 15yrs old you caught a sniff of someone else's spliff at a music festival - will that show up? That's an example of what I'm talking about.

Does it measure back the past 24hrs, the past week, the past year? Are you considered "under the influence" even though you're perfectly fine, but traces of the 1 pill you had 3 weeks ago are still in your saliva - therefore you go to court?

I don't know much about the new laws yet, but if its what I think it is...its leaving an open book to what needs to be very defined in black & white.

TwinCam16
Post #13

Very well said!

And you will find, this is where is is going to get messy...

blues_skaterkid
Post #14

QUOTE(TwinCam16 @ Dec 1 2007, 03:25 PM) [snapback]1281679242[/snapback]

Very well said!

And you will find, this is where is is going to get messy...



have they started the drug testing in nsw?

Phat535
Post #15

If people start posting bullshit drug stories, or police bashing can the mods please just delete the offending posts and not the whole thread

Rookie ROX
Post #16

I see where you're getting at, but I think you highly overestimate the care factor of many drug users who actively drive whilst under the influence. I highly doubt any person taking drugs is going to think "oh geez, I'm driving later, I better get some charcoal ready in case I get pulled over", or even keep a bottle in the car (try explaining the reason for that actually).

The same applies to drink driving, most of those drinking don't actively seek methods to give negative readings on the test or prepare something.

As for "suspicious readings", the roadside test isn't the be all and end all. Even prior to testing, if you're suspected of being under the influence of drugs, they'll take it further.

It's not perfect, but it's something.

ROCK ON
R~R

Philthy
Post #17

Drug tests catch five drivers
Article from: AAP
December 01, 2007 11:00am

FIVE drivers tested positive for illicit drugs in Brisbane overnight after police began their first random roadside drug testing in Queensland.

The five positive tests were recorded after police tested 63 motorists at Abbotsford Road in the inner-city suburb of Bowen Hills overnight.

The tests detect use of drugs including cannabis, ecstasy, ice and speed - substances often found in the bodies of people killed in fatal car accidents.

The operation comes after trials of drug testing among motorists in north Queensland and follows the lead of other states including Victoria.

Police Minister Judy Spence said the new tests would help to make the state's roads safer.

She said alcohol and other drugs had contributed to the deaths of 106 people - or more than 31 per cent of the road toll - on the state's roads during 2006.

"Random roadside drug testing is about saving lives and last night's operations may have done just that," Ms Spence said in a statement.

"The use of drugs while driving significantly affects motorists' skills and reaction times, hindering the functions they require to drive safely.

"We are determined to catch these people who play Russian Roulette with the lives of others on Queensland roads."

The five motorists detected in yesterday's operation returned positive results in two separate tests, including a preliminary saliva test and a mouth swab.

Their licenses were automatically suspended for 24 hours and they face the prospect of fines of up to $1,050, permanent license loss and three months' jail following an analysis of their swabs by the Queensland Health Laboratory.

Drink drivers were also targeted in yesterday's Bowen Hills operation, with 10 of the 328 motorists tested returning readings over the legal blood alcohol limit.

Random drug testing will continue over the upcoming festive season, with test sites rolled out progressively across the state.

LSD
Post #18

hmmmm charcoal hey,i know they have been using this in hosptials for yrs for people that have overdosed. i know some one that had it done to them 15yrs ago.
as for driving on drugs like it or not drugs are illegal there for there will always be a zero tollerence towards drug driving
i wonder if it tests for LSD hahaha
if ya ask me i think random drug testing is a step in the right direction theres enough accidents on the road we need to do something to stop them...
oh yea also a pill will be out of your system in 24hours for one of these tests provided you have drank a fair bit of water
my 5 cents........

v8srchoice
Post #19

what variables are there for this? i do piss tests for work if i have to go to refineries, mine camps or gladstone port. they can show up traces of different drugs depending on if youve eaten a certain amount of a certain food in the last few days.
bit off topic i know but still a bit relevant.
they tried to tell me i was a heroin user because i tested positive for it, i laughed at them, i dont even do any sort of drugs. but after a bit of a chat we discovered it was the bread rolls i was eating at work for lunch. poppy seeds = positive reaction. what about saliva? what other everyday substances can create a positive reaction? what about snorting? injection? do these still get picked up?

chappy1
Post #20

QUOTE(DreamensioN @ Dec 1 2007, 03:21 PM) [snapback]1281679236[/snapback]

With drink driving, the rules are clear. You have a as many drinks as your body can take - just as long as your under the 0.05 limit you're considered ok to drive.

Now...is there a limit with drugs? Probably not. So...now we have a "zero tolerance" society.

Lets not beat about the bush about it. People have been doing drugs ever since time began (in one form or another). Its part of human society whether you like it or not. Its just something that happens.

Now that we have that out of the way...

How accurate are these tests? What are the limits and tolerances so drivers can make an informed choice and decision? Say you're 40yrs old, and one day when you were 15yrs old you caught a sniff of someone else's spliff at a music festival - will that show up? That's an example of what I'm talking about.

Does it measure back the past 24hrs, the past week, the past year? Are you considered "under the influence" even though you're perfectly fine, but traces of the 1 pill you had 3 weeks ago are still in your saliva - therefore you go to court?

I don't know much about the new laws yet, but if its what I think it is...its leaving an open book to what needs to be very defined in black & white.



ah stuff it. if u did drugs weeks ago or that night u should get in trouble. i dont think drugs years ago would show up now anyways and if so im sure they would have taken it into consideration.

TwinCam16
Post #21

Your missing his point.

Some stuff stays in your system for weeks...

How are you meant to tell...

Philthy
Post #22

http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/resources/...heet_nov_07.pdf

TwinCam16
Post #23

So the point still remains.

If your on a weight loss pill (duromine comes to mind) does that mean every time you get tested, you have to give up approx half an hour of your time? by the time they do both saliva tests and fart ass around?
Philthy
Post #24

QUOTE(TwinCam16 @ Dec 2 2007, 12:12 PM) [snapback]1281680856[/snapback]

So the point still remains.

If your on a weight loss pill (duromine comes to mind) does that mean every time you get tested, you have to give up approx half an hour of your time? by the time they do both saliva tests and fart ass around?


I doubt it


Duromine capsules contain phentermine, lactose, liquid paraffin, magnesium stearate, gelatin, titanium dioxide, carbon black (CI 77266). In addition, Duromine 15mg contains brilliant blue (FCF CI 42090), iron oxide yellow (CI 77492); Duromine 30mg contains iron oxide red (CI 77491); Duromine 40mg contains erythrosine (CI 45430), sunset yellow (FCF CI 5985). Duromine capsules are gluten-free.



"Random roadside drug testing
What drugs will be tested?
Police will ask you to provide a saliva sample
for the purpose of testing for:
• THC—the active ingredient in cannabis
• Methylamphetamine—also known as
speed and ice
• MDMA—the active ingredient in ecstasy.

Saliva tests will only be able to detect the
active ingredients of the nominated drugs
THC, MDMA and methylamphetamine.

Even though methamphetamine is
manufactured from substances such as
pseudoephedrine (found in cold and flu
tablets) those substances will not be detected
by the saliva tests."


DreamensioN
Post #25

So cocaine & herion isn't tested for. Descrimination? tongue.gif

dr460n
Post #26

QUOTE(DreamensioN @ Dec 2 2007, 12:25 PM) [snapback]1281680888[/snapback]

So cocaine & herion isn't tested for. Descrimination? tongue.gif

That's a good point, if they are going to include THC they should be including everything, when I used to smoke it made my driving safer unsure.gif more concious, less speeding, extra safe smile.gif

Philthy
Post #27

QUOTE(dr460n @ Dec 2 2007, 12:42 PM) [snapback]1281680926[/snapback]

That's a good point, if they are going to include THC they should be including everything, when I used to smoke it made my driving safer unsure.gif more concious, less speeding, extra safe smile.gif



I'm not even going there with that comment.


As for cocaine and heroin, maybe it's harder to trace than a simple saliva test and maybe it takes in too many other factors.


Or. Cocaine users are usually rich types with their own drivers and heroin addicts can't afford cars. Jks

S15_Matt
Post #28

istead of bitching and talking about how and why they can and will test and what and for how long it will be in your system, and talking about the effects of charcoal, why not DENY yourself the foolishness and not take the stupid fu**ed up drug. simple

the only thing unclear about these laws is what was mentioned before, if you are somewhere and catch a wiff of someone elses fuck up, and then end up in the shit for it. but if you get caught for taking something 3 and four weeks ago, and you think its fine because you had it so long ago, SUCKED right in, you shouldnt have taken it in the first place. theyre called illicit / illegal for a reason.

TwinCam16
Post #29

^^^^ real good post rolleyes.gif

Back to the decent discusion at hand smile.gif

Philthy, I was going by what it said in that link regarding "slimming dugs" but i guess the same point can be argued with a number of other "legal" substances that are listed there.

Would be interesting to know if anyone here was actually tested last night... I guess we will find out in a few hours when they come down laugh.gif

I was in the valley last night, didnt see the location / setup that they had, i actually thought they would have picked the place they usually do next to the firestation that leads up to the story bridge, but nothing there.

2muchofthiss?itisnotenuf
Post #30

D-OH don,t do drugs, or don,t DRIVE if you do IS that not simple!!!! head_wall.gif head_wall.gif Makes sense to me, dry.gif

TwinCam16
Post #31

^^^ can we stop with the pointless goodie goodie posts.....

2muchofthiss?itisnotenuf
Post #32

Yeah whatever.

sreto
Post #33

QUOTE
D-OH don,t do drugs, or don,t DRIVE if you do IS that not simple!!!! head_wall.gif head_wall.gif Makes sense to me, dry.gif


Yeah, but what if somebody smokes weed on Saturday, and drives on Sunday night and gets pulled over, he is not under the influence of drugs but he still has it in his system, should he get done the same as the person who drives whilst high? Thats the problem I see with this test. MAKE IT LEGAL.

TwinCam16
Post #34

Judy Quick Fix Spence wouldnt see it that way.

To do what your saying there would take time and research and would not show the general public that something is being done on the topic.

Making it legal opens an even bigger can of worms.

They cant measure the quantity that has been "consumed" as it is, imagine if it was legal like beer etc etc. How are they going to tell who is and who int sober and have a guideline for people to follow. Even as it is at the moment, with a "zero tollerance" theory, they cant even answer this question.
sreto
Post #35

Exactly my point mate. Even with beer, Ive known people who have been done the next day. I have no problem with fuckwits who are driving drunk or smoked up on meth getting done, but when somebody took a substance and he is not under the influence at the current time, but he is going to get done for it anyways thats what I call bullshit.

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