Hey guys I'm starting the Bill Starr's Intermediate 5x5 Workout tomorrow.

I'm am currently underweight for my height so as I have heard GOMAD works extremely well with it so I am starting that too as of tomorrow.
I will post results of weights increase weekly and my actual weight increase over the next two months or so.

Thanks a tonne to Whykickamoocow for posting it in the putting on muscle thread.

Just a question for the deadlifts in the program, what type are you supposed to be using?
Its a real pain in the ass at my gym although quite large there's no real area to do deadlifts as everything is cramped together, but I guess I'm just going to find a way around that.

I will take before pictures tomorrow and after pictures after about two months

Eggs > Milk

Greek actually found the original article so give the props too him.
But yes, combining it with the 5x5 worked wonders for me. I'm cutting back on the full fat milk now though because summers coming up though and will probably switch up my program soon as well.

For Dead lifts, use the biggest bar they have (should be the 7 footer or whatever it is). I use the over/under hand grip (left hand over, right hand under) and just go.
When you do dead lifts I find people tend to stay away from you, It's like they are afraid or something. There's only 3 or so people in my gym that actually do them.
You know you're doing them right if you shins are bleeding afterward.
Also don't use the machine for them, it's totally shit, always use the bar.

milk > everything you eat



so whats bill starrrrrrrr's 5x5 program like?

Lactose is not everyones friend, and too much is no good for anyone. Multiple protein sources and complex carbs from non-processed sources along with good fats for the win. Massive difference between the amino acid profile for eggs compared to dairy. No type of bread can ever compare to basmati rice or sweet potato. Insulin is the most anabolic substance in the body, and it's produced naturally. Once you learn how to manipulate your system to maximise your insulin levels, you can keep yourself predominantly anabolic naturally. Also less likely to have any problems with diseases such as diabetes etc later in life.

but if your trying to gain weight, you'll be more successful with milk than eggs, and your not doing it forever, just a short period of time in order to "bump up" your weight and strength.

Ice cream is more fun, have done that before

mint choc-chip

let us know how you go imp, im keen to give it a go but i think 3L a day would be too much for me haha

Lactose free milk

Almost got through the 3L today, its only the first day so I'll get used to it soon, got 10 out of the possible 12 servings so not too bad, just ate half a chicken as well

Guess how much that's gonna set you back

how is this going for you?
im starting gomad tomorrow but starting with 2L of milk and will work on it from there.
and adding alot of tuna and salmon to my diet.

Hey Imran its Ahmed, glad to see your doing the 5x5 stuff remember once you complete a weight put it up by 2.5kg and always continue to increase like that, or add one more set or one more rep to the work sets. I no longer work out where you do, if your still where i used to go.

If you want a really good routine to add strength try this one:

Monday:

Squats 5 x 5
Military press 5 x 5
Bent rows 3 x 8 - 3 sets of 8 reps
Bench 5 x 5
Dead lifts 5 x 5

Wednesday:
Squats 2 x 15
Bench 4 x 6 - 4 sets 6 reps
Chins 3 x max
DB overhead press 2 x 5
Stiff leg dead lifts 3 x 12
BB curls 2 x max
Dips 3 x max

Friday:
Squat 3 x 8
Military press 5 x 3
Incline Bench press 3 x 6
Deadlift 5 x 3
Chins 2 x max
Dips 3 x max

I have been doing this routine for about 6 weeks and i am A LOT stronger in all my lifts. Just remember because your tall to EAT EAT EAT! Without food your not going to grow. Smash those peanut butter sangas into ya with a glass of milk.

$2.45 for a 1litre carton, bit cheaper for the UHT stuff.

Only stuff I can drink.

Oh hey bro!!

I was wondering where you went! hahaha

Ok I'll try that out, because I'm still keen to do chins/dips ect so this will work perfectly for me. Now when you say add 2.5 every time when it comes to the last 5x5 should you be doing your max, like hmm its hard to explain but say when I did bench before 3x8 I was doing max weight I could do for all of them, so for the 5x5 should I be doing a bit less then my max or what since I'm adding more weight every time?

When doing strength training its important to always use your max weights and always rest up about 2-3 minutes between each set. Even if you feel fresh and can go again, give it the time as your CNS needs to recover from the weights your pushing. My average rest is about 3 minutes now between each set, i started off with 2 min rests when the weight was lighter and added more rest time as the weights got up.

For example when i started this about 6 weeks ago i took it easy and was benching 85kg 5 x 5

Then the next week i put it upto 87.5 and did 5 x5 the week after i put it up to 90 and got like 5 5 5 4 4 reps so i stayed on 90kg the next week and smashed it out 5x5 and just kept going up.

I could have pushed more at the start, but normally start relatively easy with a program like this, if you start too hard then you wont be putting on weight every week and your progress will stagnate really quick and you want to give up.

Dont forget to eat big, this program drains you so hard, after you squat, overhead press, row, and bench the last thing u want to do is deadlift, so eat up.

Im trying so hard not to put on weight, but this program is just so good at building muscle its hard not too because your appetite goes crazy after squatting so much.

This calculator can help you with your core numbers Your "Test Weight" should be your max (prior to starting the 5x5 routine). You should be building up to this max by week 4 in order to help you continue to grow.

http://www.vicjg.com/aspx/madcowint.aspx

^^^ pretty good site, but not very good at calculating max lift

In what way? Apart from rounding errors it seems to do the 2.5% increase pretty well as well as calculating your ramping up weights

nah just up the top were it says test weight and how many reps you did and then it calculates your 1rm and 5rm, going from what i put in testing it it underestimates a bit it that's all.

but I mean it's a computer program so it's pretty good.

it's just you have to realise some people have more fast twitching mucsles than slow and vice versa.

there are grinders and explosive lifters

Ahh, got you. Thanks for the clarification

Just out of curiousity to the people taking this training program on, what is the plan for after this? As we all know, you have to mix things up a bit to keep your body guessing, so I'm just curious as to what people have planned to switch to if they begin to get a bit stale with this training program. A good reason being the fact that it contains no isolation exercises at all. Now I know they tell people that compound exercises are the best way to put size on and gain strength, but from this comes muscular imbalances which can lead to some very nasty injuries and/or posterial problems.

I am by no means bagging this style of training, as I'm all for it, but just putting the thought in peoples minds that with growth can come problems if major muscle groups are growing and getting stronger while smaller ones are not.

I actually just started a variation of this. Plan to be on it for 10-12 weeks.

Afterwards I am planning to go on a fairly normal routine.

Day1. Chest/Shoulders/Triceps

Incline bench
Decline bench
DB shoulder press
Upright rows/lat raises (cant decide yet)
Rope pulldowns
Close grip bench

Day 2. Back/Biceps/Traps
Sitting rows
Pullups/Chinups
Hypers (maybe deadies depending on if I want a lighter day or not)
Preacher curls
DB curls suppersetted with Shrugs
Reverse flys supersetted with reverse grip curls

Day 3 Legs
Squats
Walking lunges
Lying down curls
Calf raises

Mostly looking at a 10-12 rep range for 3 sets each (Maybe more reps for triceps/biceps as they seem to respond to this for me) with less than 1 min rests.

see with 5x5 your only suppose to be doing it for a short amount of time like I've said before.

hit it hard and fast, 5x5, 5days a week, for about 2-3 months. just to make your strength and size jump up.

there's no way your body will sustain this type of workout for a long period of time, this workout's designed for a short period.

Advanced 5x5
It is similar but uses different phases(loading, deloading and intensity) Has more sets and adds some different exercises (power cleans, overhead press)
goes over 2 months, then I may switch back into a normal routine again.
Just curious to see how much more I can lift.
The intermediate 5x5 does have skull crushers/bicep curls, which you do once a week as well as core exercises twice a week.
So far haven't had any issues with imbalances or injuries, but I think after this I will be back to my old routine.

Some people also recommend the texas method as well as a few others for a follow on, but as been said it's not something you do continuously.

im doing this 5x5 stonglift routine atm. its worked wonders for me. initially lost a few kg but im 1 1/2 months into it now and im up 4kg in body weight. exercise weight...since starting ive upped my pb's by:

Bench - 10kg (110% bodyweight)
Squats - 10kg (approx 100% bodyweight - have bad knees so started low but working my way up)
Deadlift - 12kg (125% bodyweight)
O/H Press - 7.5kg

other exercises like pushups, inverted rows, chinups, pullups etc ive upped substantially since starting the routine. Highly recommended.

Might have to give this GOMAD a go as im starting to stall a little

Im about 7 or so weeks into my 5x5 stuff and im finding my progess is slowing down on bench, but my squats, deads, and overhead press is still going strong.

I think if you only make small incremental jumps you wont have a problem with burning out and i think you could sustain this program for years to come. I highly doubt that your muscles are going to get used to doing squats, deads, and presses if you always either up the weight, add more sets or reps.

Good, these are the types of responses I was hoping to hear. I'm watching my flatmate go through rotator cuff and neck problems at the moment because of the program by his PT at Finance First. Funnily enough, I predicted his injuries to him a few months back not long after he started. Now he is doing physio, and they are giving him all the rotator cuff etc exercises I told him he should be doing. Just goes to show you, kettle bells aren't so good after all

Serioiusly they do have a place, but the program my flatmate is on has given him muscle imbalances, so he now has a bit of neck pain and rotator cuff pain, which in turn is now hampering his training.

What kind of program was he on? Normally PT's give their clients pretty conservative programs and give them the least strenuous exercises possible (which is another reason I hate them)

On another note it's a wonder this GOMAD business isn't more widespread, so simple yet so effective.

He has him super setting body parts constantly. While I believe this is good for a shock from time to time, I don't feel it's the best way to gain mass when you are doing it every workout. He is also doing single arm kettle bell swings from the floor to up above his head, this is how he injured his rotator cuff he seems to think. Frankly his body isn't changing, in fact I feel he is going backwards, and even he has admitted it now. Yet he still keeps going to the same guy based on the fact that this guy has the best physique out of all the PT's in the gym in his opinion. I haven't seen the guy, but some other people I know who train there suggest that he is on the gear, which I think is a bit of a harsh call.

I think my flatmate is one of those people that is happy to plod along, and just the fact that he is doing something is enough for his mind to think that he is making the effort to get fit and have a good physique. He keeps telling me how he doesn't have the frame to put any size on, yet neither did I when I started. I've tried to suttley offer some dietary advice when he asks me things, but he doesn't ever take anything onboard. You can't drill things into peoples minds, they have to want to learn.

just dead lifted 180kg yesterday after 8 weeks on my program. My pb before i started was a very shady 160kg but i smashed 180kg with ease, gave 190kg a go but i didnt really budge it i guess squatting 120kg 3 sets of 8 before hand took away my legs. Squats have gone up by 20kg as well im not sure what my bench and overhead 1rms are, have not tried them yet.

After 8 weeks of 5x5 training these are my results.

Monday Start weight Current weight
Squats 5 x 5 105kg 127.5kg
Military press 5 x 5 57.5kg 70kg
Bent rows 3 x 8 77.5kg 92.5kg
Bench 5 x 5 87.5kg 97.5kg
Dead lifts 5 x 3 130kg 162.5kg

Wednesday:
Bench 4 x 8 82.5kg 90kg
Chins 3 x max ~8 ~15
DB overhead press 3 x 6 22.5kg 30kg
Stiff leg dead lifts 3 x 12 80 102.5
BB curls 2 x max
Dips 3 x max ~11 ~20

Friday:
Squat 3 x 8 ~100kg 120kg
Military press 5 x 3 67.5kg 77.5kg
Incline Bench press 3 x 6 67.5 77.5
Deadlift 5 x 3 135kg 160kg
Dips 3 x max ~11 ~20

I have just finished my 8th week on this program and as you can see i have improved on everything. I worked pretty hard to improve this much, my current 1 rms are:
140kg squat - very easily done this
180kg dead - pretty comfortable
110kg bench - have not tested this since starting to put in effort, but should get it easily
80kg military press - have not really tested this 1rm recently
80kg power clean - dont train this at all so its shit.

Im going to finish off my 9th week of this program this week and next week have a rest week basically just do lighter weights minimal rest periods and work on my conditioning, then test my 1rms once more and im not too sure what program im gonna go on after that now that i have some pretty good base strength.