I really want an experienced detailed opinion on this.

So far I have heard two different trains of thought, and not really getting much in the way of an example to back up opinions.

Once side says, if you are suffering from DOMS, you should rest the muscle group until it is fully recovered before training it again. Apparantly training a muscle group whislt it's in this condition leads to over training and burnout, and then you have to take even more time off to recover from that.

The other side states that it's actually ok to train a muscle group during DOMS, it actually speeds up recovery (or something?) and lets your body adapt faster.

So i'm not sure.

Normally I take the first option. I find it pointless training if I cant train a muscle at 100% or close to it. Trying to train with sore muscles is a PITA but I would do it if it's more beneficial.

All opinions welcome.

doms are a load of shit. I squat, bench, deadlift and overhead press 3 times a week, sure i got sore as hell for the first week or two but after that your body adapts to the workload. There is no such thing as over training, only under eating.

I'm training 5 -6 days a week (weights and cardio, it's for footy/ fire service)

I have a funny feeling this may be the issue, but i've been doing it for quite a while. Just occasionaly I get DOMS and was just curious to whether or not I should take the extra day off that week or just try and train through it. or try to find a better split if anyone else has been in this position. I really need to improve my strength to compete with the bigger guys so I can make rep.

It's a 5x5 program by the way, Mon/wens/fri then cardio/fitness tue/thur/sat (or thats game day). My strength has gone way up but sometimes in the gym I can't always go 100% and it feels like a waste of time.

Doms


Delayed onset muscle soreness (DOMS), also sometimes called muscle fever, is the pain or discomfort often felt 24 to 72 hours after exercising and subsides generally within 2 to 3 days. It is commonly thought to be caused by increased lactate concentrations; however, this is a misconception as it has been shown elevated levels of lactic acid rarely persist after an hour of rest.[1]

Although the precise cause is still unknown, the type of muscle contraction seems to be a key factor in the development of DOMS. A theory recently developed states that DOMS is caused by the breakdown of muscular fibres. This is particularly apparent in strength/resistance programs. The breakdown occurs due to stress, and allows the muscles to grow stronger and larger, as shown through hypertrophy. Exercises that involve many eccentric contractions, such as downhill running, will result in the most severe DOMS. This has been shown to be the result of more muscle cell damage than is seen with typical concentric contractions, in which a muscle successfully shortens during contraction against a load.[2]

Some research claims that DOMS is not caused by the pain from damaged muscle cells, but from the reinforcement process.[3] The muscle responds to training by reinforcing itself up to and above its previous strength by increasing the size of muscle fibers (muscle hypertrophy). This reinforcement process causes the cells to swell in their compartment and put pressure on nerves and arteries, producing pain.

[edit] Training with DOMS

DOMS typically causes stiffness, swelling, strength loss, and pain.[4][5] Continued exertion of sore muscles can cause further swelling and pain, and lengthen the period of muscular soreness. There is some scientific evidence that further training—a so-called second bout—has no negative effect on the reinforcement process.[6] Training in a state of constant soreness would be uncomfortable, although one may be able to adapt to it. The relationship between muscular soreness, the rest required, and hypertrophy is a contentious topic in bodybuilding. Claims that perpetual muscular soreness assures muscle growth are opposed by reports of stagnation through overtraining.

Stretching before and after exercise has been suggested as a way of reducing DOMS, as have warming up before exercise, cooling down afterwards, and gently warming the area.[7] However, there is also evidence that the effect of stretching on muscle soreness is negligible.[8] Overstretching itself can cause DOMS.[9] Some recommend contrast showers as a treatment, alternating between cold and hot water; as it may increase circulation.[10]

[edit] References

[b] 1. ^ DOMS at Sports Injury Bulletin
2. ^ Roth, S. (2006, January 23). Why does lactic acid build up in muscles? And why does it cause soreness? ScientificAmerican.com. Retrieved on July 24, 2006.
3. ^ Yu, J., Carlsson, L. & Thornell, L.E. (2004). Evidence for myofibril remodeling as opposed to myofibril damage in human muscles with DOMS: an ultrastructural and immunoelectron microscopic study. Histochemistry and Cell Biology, 121(3), p. 219-227. link
4. ^ Connolly, D. A., Sayers, S. P. & McHugh, M. P. (2003) Treatment and prevention of delayed onset muscle soreness (abstract.) Journal of Strength Conditioning Research, 17(1):197-208. Retrieved from PubMed.gov on July 24, 2006.
5. ^ Szymanski, D. (2003). Recommendations for the avoidance of delayed-onset muscle soreness. Strength and Conditioning Journal 23(4): 7–13.
6. ^ Ji-Guo, Y. (2003). Re-evaluation of exercise-induced muscle soreness: an immunohistochemical and ultrastructural study. Abstract of unpublished doctoral dissertation, Umeå Universitet, Sweden. ISBN 91-7305-503-4
7. ^ WebMD article on DOMS
8. ^ BMJ "Effects of stretching before and after exercising on muscle soreness and risk of injury: systematic review"[/b]

Touchy subject mate, as there is no real clear cut evidence to prove either theories correct as per warrgtho71s post. I would suggest trying a few different variables and monitor them to see which is working best for you. I generally don't try and train a body part if I have DOMS, but I still will from time to time to give the body a shock. I'm currently doing that alot as the only body parts I can train due to injuries is hamstrings, calves, abs, and some side and rear delt movements. I'm doing it moreso to help the mental aspect of at least still doing something at the gym, rather than sitting at home idle. I'm finding my hamstrings are being overtrained slightly, have gone backwards ever so slightly with strength, but not enough to be of any concern. Calves seem to be responding ok, and delts are fine. Which really proves the theory that different body parts muscle fibres react differently to stress, some heal quicker than others. And it tends to be muscles like delts and calves that repair quicker than say pecs.

I forgot to mention a good trick to help reduce muscle soreness, high levels of vitamin c. Take 500-1000mg 20-30 mins before a workout, and 1000mg straight after. There are some studies I read many years ago that pointed to evidence that this can help reduce muscle soreness. I do this, and also take 500iu of vitamin e, as it's also a good anti oxidant. I tend to find I notice it working if I stop taking the vitamin c. Still get sore, but takes the edge off a bit.

Thanks for the info guys. I'll have a go with the extra vitamin C and such. I'll try and train through a session or two next time I get some soreness and see what happens.

Bear in mind that a lack of DOMS does not necessarily mean that the muscle has completely recovered. So just because your muscles aint so dont mean theyre fully recovered.

I cant see why your body would not be able to recover on a 4 day split. Keep your protein in check and you should be good to go.

Yeah, I heard that too.


The 5x5 is a full body program, squat 3 x a week.
I don't have cardio any more (off season) I might replace it with some jogging or walking, or nothing at all, I think it's actually hindering my progress. Well it is the off season so, cardio isn't really a priority anyway.

meh, I've done a squat session one workout and then the next day pulled a new max deadlift.


just because your muscles are sore doesn't mean they haven't recovered enough for you to use them.

Well it doesn't help that my cardio/training consist of a fair bit of sprint work. Using my quads/gluted/hammies 5 days a week is bound to take it's toll. Most of the time I am fine, it's just the odd occasion where my legs are totally fucked and feel wound up really tight ( to the point where iI lose my range of motion). Well like I said no more heavy cardio for a couple of months so I can concentrate on my lifts more.