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Damo
Is the defrager that comes with windows as good or better than third party defraggers?

If not, what are some good defragging programs.
Mr.B
Auslogics Disk Defrag or JkDefrag

http://www.auslogics.com/disk-defrag

http://www.kessels.com/Jkdefrag/

Windows ones are fine for your everyday users. If you want to be more specific then I recommend these ones. I'm sure TRK will probably come up with something to trump me anyway. tongue.gif
systemcrasher
O&O defrag is pretty good also
Damo
cheers,

I gave Auslogics Disk Defrag a go, came out making my pc 5 times faster..noticed the difference straight away. Gonna get more of their software.
Chris
QUOTE(Damo @ Apr 12 2009, 10:31 AM) [snapback]1283891703[/snapback]
cheers,

I gave Auslogics Disk Defrag a go, came out making my pc 5 times faster..noticed the difference straight away. Gonna get more of their software.

5 times? How long ago sice you've defragged? I probably haven't defragged in a year, used that Auslogic one and i never notice a difference.
the_random_hero
CCleaner + Defraggler are the absolute fucking tits. Best thing is they are free smile.gif
fpvdrif6
+1 for JkDefrag
Damo
I hadn't degrag the hdd since buying it.. was either 5times or 5% can't remember.. Either way, i've noticed a massive difference in speed.
the red krawler
I havent defragged a HDD since the FAT16 days, due to the fact it makes no difference imo.
fpvdrif6
I'd have to disagree... I see it in the shop all the time. Defragging the hard drive is what fixes the customer's "slow" computer about 75% of the time... the other 25% being malware (or a good combination of the two).
the red krawler
QUOTE(fpvdrif6 @ Apr 14 2009, 11:50 PM) [snapback]1283904726[/snapback]

I'd have to disagree... I see it in the shop all the time. Defragging the hard drive is what fixes the customer's "slow" computer about 75% of the time... the other 25% being malware (or a good combination of the two).


So 75% of the computers you fix are solved with a placebo? o.O

In my experience, 95% of computers that run "slow" are due to viruses, malware and stupid freeware/shareware programs people have installed that are poorly coded (usually sent via MSN "omg check this game its so great" stylez).
n_one
in the industry we use diskeeper(http://www.diskeeper.com/) on our servers.... the best program out there full stop.

ur an idiot if you think defragmenting does nothing.

just as important as having a decent anti virus program.
the red krawler
QUOTE(n_one @ Apr 15 2009, 08:45 PM) [snapback]1283909346[/snapback]

in the industry we use diskeeper(http://www.diskeeper.com/) on our servers.... the best program out there full stop.


Windows XP and Vistas built in defragger is based on Diskeeper...

Anecdotal evidence time.. I've never had a hard drive die on me, and I never run defrag. Coincidence?
fpvdrif6
Maybe... maybe not. But you are obviously a tech enthusiast of some sort, and therefore implement best practice. Generally the customers that bring in their computers for repairs/servicing seem to load and unload huge amounts of data that ends up leaving the hard drive very badly fragmented.

You seem to strongly believe defragging does nothing... Why would Windows go so far to include a built-in defragmenter? Do you have any credible links to backup your theory (which I've never heard before)?
Mr.B
Defragging really depends on how many files you delete or change each day and also how much disk space you have free (it's around 20% AFAIK).

QUOTE
“The OS has a silly habit of trying to reuse every free cluster, even if it’s in the middle of a large occupied area and there’s a lot of free space at the end of the volume,” says Apicella. “So new files end up being scattered all over the drive, which means having to do several seek operations to bring them all together.” But in PC World’s tests, using a host of defraggers yielded no noticeable performance lift.


http://www.pcworld.in/india/features/3875/...ruth_or_Fiction

QUOTE
For the most part, this is just not true -- although there is a small grain of truth here. The reality is that the increases you will see in both performance and free space are negligible, and will more than likely be negated after a couple of hours of normal usage. Defrag utilities date back to the early days of computing, when disk drives were small and slow (at least relative to what you see today). And back then, yes -- occasionally defragging your hard drive would yield some sustained benefits. But with the size and speed of today's drives, defragging a drive is for the most part a waste of time.

Sometimes you will also hear someone suggest defragging the hard drive as a solution to some type of problem with a program that is not working correctly (i.e., program or system crashes). That's total hogwash. All a defrag does is re-organize the data on your hard disk. There's just no way that's going to fix a misbehaving program! As with Myth #1, don't ever let a tech support person tell you a defrag is the answer to your problem.


http://www.thirdring.net/tips/pcmyths.htm

QUOTE
You don't need to defragment your hard drive very often. Modern drive optimisers like Windows 98's Defrag which position program data according to how often you use it can, indeed, improve performance a bit, but there's no reason for even a heavily used computer to be defragmented every week, or even every month. Yes, it'll be faster if you do. But the difference will probably be tiny.

Hard drive performance in toto makes very little difference to system performance, on machines with adequate physical RAM. The difference in performance between unfragmented and moderately fragmented drives is small, and the larger the drive, for a given level of filesystem activity, the less fragmentation it will suffer.

If you're using Windows NT or 2000 and NTFS-formatted drives, bear in mind that NTFS is famously insensitive to fragmentation - which is just as well, because it's hard to do anything with NTFS without it fragmenting data. This is why Microsoft claimed for so long that NTFS was immune to fragmentation, and no defrag utility was needed at all!

NTFS performs poorly on old drives with lousy seek speed, but the trade-off is that its performance as fragmentation increases remains quite steady. Once the NTFS Master File Table (MFT) becomes fragmented, you can indeed lose performance, but how much you lose still depends on what files are where and how you use the computer. Look at overall system performance, rather than just disk subsystem performance, and the difference due to fragmentation often fades into the noise.

How much effect fragmentation has on performance depends heavily on what files are fragmented, where the fragments lie, and what filesystem you're using. Generally speaking, the upshot of all this is that frequent ritualistic defragmentation, in the absence of a significant measured performance loss (not just how your computer "feels" to you), is, obviously, unnecessary.

Fragmentation certainly can severely degrade system performance, especially on Windows machines without enough physical RAM, or which are doing very disk-intensive tasks like serious database work or high data rate video editing. Defrag weekly, though, and you're probably just going to grow hair on the palms of your hands.


http://www.dansdata.com/sbs22.htm

the red krawler
QUOTE(fpvdrif6 @ Apr 16 2009, 12:33 AM) [snapback]1283910806[/snapback]

You seem to strongly believe defragging does nothing...


I believe defragging does 'something', its the extent to which it affects performance that I disagree with.

The wildest claim for increase in disk access is 25%, with the worst proof-by-testing I've find is an INCREASE in disk access times by 8%. Thats a MASSIVE difference in opinion for something that should be incredibly easy to test (use Ghost or similiar to take an exact replica of a totally fragmented HDD. Check performance of random file access (ensuring your random sample includes files at both the begining and end of a drive.). Then defrag with Defragger X and test performance gains. Reformat, reimage and defrag with Defragger Y and test performance gains. Repeat.)

I've defragged a handful (maybe 2 handfuls) of computers for other people at their request, and never noticed any gains. All it seemed to achieve was 4 hours of the hard drive light flickering light a strobe. Sure, there might be .fuckall% of a reduction in seek time for some files, but the point is its not noticable gains like clearing out a cache / keeping POP inboxes under control / trimming the fat from a windows install / adding more RAM / removing 11ty billion malware programs someones kid has installed 'because a friend sent me it over msn'.

If youre that anal about defragging, swap to Linux. Run ext3, and keep ~20% free hard drive space at a minimum. ext3 doesnt fragment so long as there is enough free space on the drive, so youre hard drive fragmentation worries will be over.
fpvdrif6
Interesting...

Mr. B's first two links are not what I would call "credible"... The third link (Dan's Data) definitely counts as credible - and proves my point. Especially the second-last sentence. The last sentence is a warning about defragmenting too much - no point running a defrag if the drive doesn't need it. Unfortunately most users don't know what kind of work they've been doing with the PC and wouldn't have an idea whether or not a defrag is due.

trk - that's nice, I see you talking about "wild claims" and ghosting to test, but you didn't post any links? Of course, I do agree with you about the many other points in keeping a computer maintained.

I'm not that anal about it, it's just that it's one of the bigger "maintenance tasks" that yields the best results. I do IT tech work in a shop and see it day in and day out. For my personal computer, I defrag it only when I do any large installs/uninstalls or other forms of file transfers to/from the drive. (Maybe two - three times a year).
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