Hi all..

Since there was some healthy discussion in this thread: http://www.boostcruising.com/forums/index....67291&st=25

I thought it would be good to introduce a new thread here to avoid taking the other thread too far off topic!


I'll get the ball rolling by commenting on one persons comment about the person said about working for free to get exposure.

Yes, positive exposure is nice to get, and can help. However you do not want to be known as the guy who 'whores himself out for free'. You also don't want to be stealing other peoples jobs just because you're cheaper or free.

Another thought; It doesn't take top dollar equipment to become a professional. There are lots of professional photographers out there without 1D/D3 etc etc cameras. Whatever get's the job done is the saying.


Another another thought; If you own a piano it doesn't make you a pianist, you are a piano owner. Just because you own a camera it doesn't make you a photographer.


Discuss

i like what you've done there haha

something else i'd like to add, everyone wants to make a buck out of it, most of the new guys just take car photos, taking car shots is not going to make any money, magazines have the guys they use in each state. Dave is lucky he's been around the qld car scene since day dot, he has his market here and everybody uses him. no one is really going to take that from him because he continues to produce the goods.

if any of ya's actually want to make it somewhere expand your horizons, get technical. if ya want money learn to shoot weddings or portrates., but ask harry on here, he might see this, if you want to make money from photography your not going to be shooting what you want, typically it will be boring shit. keep it as a hobby and forget about making a buck cause thats how you lose the fun.

trust me cause thats the mistake i made i thought yeah people will buy images from drift days and the like, you try your best to watermark images so people cant steal them but then you dont make anything. i generally dont watermark images anymore because i cant be bothered when, i take photos its for the enjoyment. If people want them they can have them especially drift photos.

i know it might sound a bit tough and dis heartening but thats how it is.

-tyler

I am a pro i had my first go on sunday taking photos they turned out awesome it wasnt even my camera. all i did was follow the car and shot lol ok maybe only 1 or 2 photos turned out alright but i can say i definatly dont have artistic eye for it

This is a serious thread, not a shitjoke thread

I stated that comment in the thread, kyle.

By all means, but I couldn't see myself charging people for my sort of work, tho it would be nice, it's not what I'm in it for.

I have told a shop that I visit quiet often that I'm willing to do some free work for them because of all the help he has given me free of charge, not to mention it'd be great to have some decent photos to put together a portfolio.

By all means, I didn't come into the photography world to make my photos absolutely free, nor bring down the price of others photos, but I'm FAR from professional and really don't think the quality is upto par to be able to charge money.


I like to hear peoples opinions on it tho.

It fucks people over when you try to explain to them that the photo they want to use in their advertisement for a nationwide magazine will cost them $700 or more for 12 monthly issues.

That's just one of the reasons. haha

Its amazing what you see these days. I have heard of big magazines getting quotes from pros shooting 30+ years, and then some 20 year old punk with a **D camera comes along and tenders a quote for $50. Guess what the company took the $50 option.

I think the company needs their advertising department to be fired, but unlimited license for a photo that's given to them for $50? Some people need their head read.

Camera = wank factor. Hence not doing much anymore. Everyone has an SLR these days.

going on from whats being said in the other thread i hadn't looked at it the way dave and yourself kyl3 are saying. after reading through your posts i can see exactly what you guys are getting at and agree with you.

although i do think the quality differance is there between say jayrads photos and daves just for examples sake. but now looking at it people that are buying the photos see it as jarad charges $15 why does dave charge $50 for example.

maybe people should charge no matter what skill level they are. even though that is completely contradicting what i said earlier. although i was commenting on a different level.

ill leave it for you guys to discuss over for now

-tyler

i spent 45mins on the phone educating a client on why he should pay and use my photo rather then some free photo that his mate gave him for an advertisment in fast fours

Made me so angry.

*throws in 2 cents*

I'll use myself as an example in this case. Currently I'm nothing more than an amateur with a camera. I take photo's for the shear pleasure at this stage and am nowhere near happy enough with my work to even consider charging people for use of them. In saying this I don't give them use of my images full stop. Anyone asking for images at this stage are just after personal prints which I'm more than happy to provide them with as more often than not they are close friends

Currently all images are watermarked and thrown up on my site for people to have a look see and boost my ego about my shooting (haha). If I were to charge for use of my images I really wouldn't have a clue where to start pricing wise. It would be nice if there were a rough guide to follow in terms of pricing structures (I've yet to look into it so there might be something out there to go by). At some stage I'd like to offer CD's from events for a certain price and only for personal use.

So in getting a little pro-active in this thread I was wondering if we could get your thoughts Kyle and Dave's on the matter of what would be a fair price structure pending the quality of work as an example.

ps. Matt I'm adding you to my blogroll

just use google or look at ppl sites they are all about the same kyles, mine, blacktrack.com.au is bascily the industry standard give or take $5- $10

just have to think how much u have spent on gear and ur time and its easy to justify the costs.

I couldn't agree more with Kyle's statement about being a piano owner etc etc.

One thing i just see as a giant bandwagon on this site is people who clearly have no actual grasp on the basics of photography, and then go and watermark a photo with a professional looking logo to cover up the shittyness. And i've also discovered that when trying to receive advice, if it's to harsh for them, they get their panties in a twist, but hey, you've been shooting for 6 months now, i forgot you know everything.

Im an environmental consultant, not a photographer, i just love getting a great photo and being able to say to myself " i took that ". As i said to Matt a while back, i don't watermark my photo's because i just don't see the need. If i was hired by a small group who were going to use them for advertising purposes i might to get myself known a bit better, but that's pretty much the only time.

I've tried to start the "don't watermark your photos" bandwagon, so far know ones jumped on and i feel rather lonely.

i use to never watermark my photos then someone stole them and used them in an advertisment which i should of made 500+$ from

Well that would be a kick in the knickers

Dont worry i sued them but thats another story id rather not discuss

can u understand why i watermark now

I watermark my images so i can get recognition for that photo once its saved and reposted elsewhere. And im exactly like you Kane, i take pride in saying "i took that photo!"

Don't get me wrong Matt you've got every right to do it (as anyone does), however, your one of the people on this site that i would actually pay for your assistance. I mean its how i first became friends with Dave, i'd seen his photos, then got in contact with him to shoot my Dad's Aston for a birthday present.

Whereas with this so called "new breed" that really have no actual skill using a camera, but decide to throw a watermark on the image anyway to pass themselves off as some kind of pro, just makes them look like an absolute joke.

Im not one to name shame, but as an example, some guy who i believe was using an L series lens, most likely 70-200 2.8, was taking photos at the spit and watermarked his photos as "JustDoing Photography" and only two of the photos out of the 20 that were posted were in focus.

There's actual talent on here like you, Dave, Neal, Kyle, Casey, Chris F, Tyson, Ranmod, Jayfag etc etc and the others, but i just see this so-called influx of bandwagoners a joke.

Wait, what group am I in lol

The tounge thing was sarcasim i knew what you were getting at.

Personally i think everyone should watermark photos, especially in this day an age. Ppl will steal anything.

took the words out of my mouth.. i work in mainly events.. whether it be clubs, concerts or band gigs etc.. thats my main focus.. ive lost alot of work with people buying slr's and doing it for free and saying they are photographers.. plus model portfolio work etc

When they call me and i give them a 150-200 fee just for a few hours they cringe and say they can get it cheaper, so they do.

Then i see the photos and see blurred pics, out of focus'd shots, wrong ISO's.. dark images.. etc and i think.. you're kidding right? you want your event to look like it sucked ?

ive been running my business now for over 2 years and sometimes still feel out of my league against the big names.. i dont mind doing automotive photography, im a mechanic by trade with a bad back that cant do it anymore so keeping a foot in the car scene keeps my interests flowing..

Quite recently i did a studio portrait lighting course and the lecturer said..

Its us against them.

A person said in the room, who is them?

He replied "camera users"..

i get work all year around based on the fact i know studio lighting and setups.. its a good fall back.. and if you dont have a studio, id say invest in one and get to know how to use it!

in the automotive world.. ive seen alot of people come into the scene making their names all that, but when i see their pics.. same angles, no post production, no concepts, no lighting techniques, im not saying im the best caus eim clearly not but i like to think i put as much effort into a shoot as much as possible. not just take 150 photos, show the world i can take a photo and claim to be a photographer

theres my 2cents kyle lol

I don't post photos on this website but I get the impression some of the comments are aimed some what at me also. I'm kind of the same boat as Jayrad how ever I'm not as much of a celebrity it seems. I started with my camera at the start of last year. Mainly do automotive photography but also do a lot of other stuff in my spare time.

I have only sold a few of cd's to select people for their personal use. I watermark images as they get stolen regularly (even when watermarked).

I in no way think I am a "pro" I am very amateur but I do enjoy going out and taking photos & also try and be as safe as I can be when doing so.

I would love to have a chat to Dave about the common interest we have but I must admit I don't get the impression from the brief discussions I have had with him that he has much time for someone like myself. We all have to start somewhere right?

Neil

My comments if anyone is wondering are not directed at the people wanting to have a crack or share an interest in this kind of hobby. It's the people who are relatively new to this world of work who don't take to kindly to certain criticisms from people on this site who clearly have more experience then them.

They put in their watermark, dress the photo up with a portrait, but when the basic rules of thumb arn't followed and they ask for C&C, and when its brought to the table they get their butt-hole in a twist and don't like whats being said, when its clearly needed if they want to be able to improve. Arrogance gets you nowhere. Keep an open mind and take every bit of advice you can if you want to make the most out of what you own.

:S I made a big post but now it's gone..

Personally I don't think there's ENOUGH C&C and with people like Lance, GP, Harry etc gone it leaves only a couple guys who's comments hold water (Mine not included).

This is a great thread and everyones comments are great and i can understand where yoy are all coming from. I am a perfect example, i went out and purchased a 450D and took some photos, edited them and put my logo down in the bottom corner. I did that to about 6 photos and then thought to myself, hang on a minute, What the F*!K are you doing that for. It didnt make my images look like they were done by a proffesional, it was more like a wank factor. And i will be the first to admit that i USED to be guilty of it.

As for now, i am still learning alot about photography, and no where near happy with my images (there is just so much more technical stuff to learn). I take photos for the fun of taking photos. I love posting my images on sites for C&C, i love finding out where i went wrong and what i can improve.

I have seen on a couple of photography forums where people go out and buy SLR's and than think they can get a photography pass at car events because they have a flash camera. People like this ruin it for the proffesionals because the amatures dont expect to get paid because they already know they are shit, and the majority of the time the company will always take on the amature due to cheaper rates, and that sucks for the pro's that may do photography for a full time job.

Eh I'm in the same boat as Neal with this one. I'm an amatuer at best and am no where near the level of any of the people on here or anywhere else for that matter. I do it for the fun of it nothing more nothing less. I don't have the intention of making a profit from it, hence the lack of water mark, and if people want a copy of the photos I am more than happy to provide it.

My photos aren't the greatest thing in the world hence I really don't have to worry about them ending up somewhere else. It's a steady learning curve to say the least.

Meh, other photography sites (wont name them so it doesnt get an influx of nubs, but you know it) will give as good as crit. I just got over some of the attitudes you get. All I do is lurk and moderate now.

Which is fair enough. I tend to find no matter where I go I seem to get passed over, I see the page views but get no CC, dunno whether this is due to the fact I suck or what but it's bloody frustrating.



and on my da it just seems to be 'great photo' which, sure is nice, but is pointless, i'd rather the view and no comment vs something as useless as that.

Now I will go cry myself to sleep.

I totally agree with you Nick, people just don't give harsh C&C very often any more, which is a shame and why photographic standards are most probably dropping.

Nah that's cause stooges are buying SLR's like they're iPods.

In a positive note I have fixed my ebay rf gear.. Yay for me..

i gave harsh cc on another forum and the guy whinged. People get quite defensive of there work. Personally i dont give a shit haha. Say what you want. I dont give cc on stuff i suck at personally as how can i tell u how something can improve if i cant do it myself??

im the same as matt, but rather than it not being my niche thing to shoot, i have just lost a lot of the stuff i knew due to not having much to do with photography over the last year to year and a half. as i get back into it ill get used to nit picking peoples stuff but at the moment i cant crit purely because i cant do it myself.

like matt said too, people can crit any of my work as hard as they like i wont sook over it, the harsher the better. cant handle the heat get the fuck out of the kitchen


-tyler

Sums it up pretty much I think.

Word. My thoughts too, why post it if you aren't open to anyone not ripping the shit through it.



Also guys, just cause you don't shoot whatever genre doesn't mean you don't have the eye and can't open the shooters eyes to it too, hell I suck at everything but I still make comments in the hope that they didn't see something or consider whatever purely because I am another set of eyes NOT that I think I own whatever genre and I think I have the cred to CC - Just so you all know .

lol best call ever so true

I love harsh C&C, look at all my comments from Neal

and lol at kids buying slr's like ipods.

*raises hand* Guilty!

Get the fuck out!

http://www.27bslash6.com/photography.html


Felt it lightened up this topic.


hahaha

Fucking lol.

My camera isn't digital.. it's real!

I'm going to post that in my blog, it's that good.

Pretty accurate too

aww i didnt make the cut

well, here is another amature. some of you may notice that i dont give alot of constructive crit, thats only because i persoanlly dont think its right telling a person with more respect/knowledge/know how, how to make a photo better, but i am also a member on another forum, jayrad found me and on there i might put a set of photos up everynow and again, and they dont even get any C&C!

the last one i put up in my album here got a couple comments, i placed it on another forum, busy with members all the time, and got nothing, completely nothing.

as for selling photos...... ive was asked the last time i went to a track day for photos, and i gave them to a guy with no water mark or anything on them for free, i have no worries giving them to a person for free as they arnt exactly up to par. i will be going to the next event and i will be taking lost of photos, and if people ask me for them, this time i will put watermarks on them, but i wont charge them again, im like alot of poeple, not wanting to get into it as a career, only for a hobby.

ME NEITHER MAN, ME NEITHER.


Lets mutiny on this biaaaatch.

Like parkway drive! 2 step mutiny!

what the fuck have you been smoking tonight.

11 hr work day. and standing in the sun for like 3 hours+. Dehydration, why drink and drive when you can sweat and fly.... ?

hahaha nick, god you come up with some shite on this forum!

Probably what annoys me more than anything thou truth be told.

People going in to a thread and saying 'nice shots' and being a fanboy/gusher. Its a popularity contest these days. Fuck that.

You're ace lance!


I mean.. Tell me about it, although it is nice to hear that people like your shit, I still post because I want CC, not some fanboy comments, but I guess I don't really have to worry about that

Bergie, I come up with shit all the time, this forum is merely one of many means of 'expression' (of boredom).

At the end of the day, what I would love is for some harsh C&C around here, Nick tends to give it, which is great, so I love his comments because he's a real ass (dont worry, i still love you haha)

I just think without C&C, no one will improve and standards will keep dropping..

Who am I talk tho, Im a 15 year old kid with a DSLR.