Mark, I know you cop (no pun intended) a heap of shit on here, and this is in no way a direct attack on the BTH initiative or what you "thought" you was attempting to achieve. Have a read of this post, sit back and analyse what I have to say first before replying

BTH was an initiative to get kids off the street doing illegal drag racing and bringing them down to the strip to do it safely, in a controlled enviroment and legally. This has been covered many times on here, I'm sure your sick to death of the knockers by now.....however....I've read your replies from a distance, and haven't bothered replying until now.

I hate to throw mud into peoples faces, but here is a quote from your website

As you can appreciate from your websites above quote, the explaination that your not racing because your not on "street tyres" is invalid, you do not need to run slicks and front runners in order to race "safe". I have seen and indeed raced cars on "street tyres" quite safely with all the preventative measures and controls in place on an ANDRA sanctioned strip.
In my opinion, you and your team need to sit down and re-visit exactly what you guys are attempting to achieve, or where you would like to go with this initiative, and I fully realise the time and effort being put into this


It's bloody easy to get "caught up" in going faster, have a look at the aspirations of young driver on this site in getting their cars to go quicker, some are pipe dreams.....but some just might get there.....I feel that the BTH has been caught up in the need to "go faster", so much so, that younger "petrol heads" now feel that your car is "out of reach" in regards to "racing the cops" and winning.

I know you've mentioned DYO racing before, hell, that's what I love doing......but.....kids want to race a cop car "heads up" and either win....or be bloody competitive, at the moment, that racing is out of reach of most youngsters. Before you say it, I know for a fact that DYO involves more skill and also test/tuning than simply turning up for a street meet and racing heads up, and from what I've gathered, most of the "audience" would prefer heads up racing.......turn up......race just like from traffic lights.

Have a think about where you guys want to go with this.....throw any/all ego's out the window in regards to having the quickest car and let's get this intiative BACK ON TRACK.....KEEP IT LEGAL.

Regards,
Darrel.

Could not agree more Darrel.

Heads up racing is definately where its at in respect to street meets.
IMHO.

agree totally

Yup. Dial in's are ok, but heads up is the best in my opinion. 2c

Darryl I take on board your comments but as I have said on numerous occasions it is not about being the fastest car out there....we are mid field in the super street class and we will stay in the super street class. We, like everyone else wants to be competative and we also enjoy the sport and we will improve ourselves and our car in accordance with that. We set ourselves targets to be at each year and we tried to achieve them....Car arrived at 14.6 secs, End of first year we wanted to be in 13's, end of second year in 12's...we are now where we wanted to be in the third year. We have a couple of sides to what we do at both on and off the track..but at the track we want to run in both at both Street & Competition meets.

The other thing with the Heat is it is a draw card and a PR tool for the Drags and the Police. It was always proposed to be that. There is a 'bums on seats' factor which benefits the club. More bums on seats brings in more money which allows the club to do more things for members and competitors. So there are alot more issues than just racing on street tyres or setting a police car up to be an easy target to be beaten by everyone that races at a street meet.

BTH is not just about racing the car or having it there for people to race...its about us being involved in the sport and being able to contribute and help improve things, attracting people to the facilities, advertising, doing promotion, obtaining benefits for members, making it possible for drivers to race more cheaply, public relations and being there for people to talk to about a range of issues ranging from police, recruiting, modifications to cars, legal issues etc (oh and of course cop spit from everyone as well).

Our plan now is to build another car to run as a stock car in the street class and the heat will stay in the super street class. But mind you...this is about racing and that means being competative. If people want to have bragging rights about beating the Heat, just like everything else in life, you gotta earn it.

One comment, to make

out of the people i see drag racing at tdz, only a hand full have ever turned up at the street drags,

people that have or pulling around 13 / 14 second passes, the very few who ran 10's and 11's at the track

now your in the 11's down south and 12's up here none of them are ever going to get close to that!

I liked it when we I went to the first street drags, street tyres and in full street trim, full exhuast etc that's just me! because that's how it would have been down tdz or at the set of lights!

I suppose if u can't run like that, and want to drop your exhuast etc, use street slicks (dot appoved) u should go into the open meet's! because that's how your car's setup!

may be we could have a True Street class like the LS1 boys do

Mark,
That is great news and it was going to be my other suggestion, a HEAT II in street class is just the ticket good initiative mate.

Regards,
Darrel.

http://www.boostcruising.com/forums/index....howtopic=138811

I got flamed for that post... :really pissed off smiley:

Just another thing Mark. When BTH came out and started racing your audience was much larger. People thought they had a chance. No offence but most people don't go to the drags to BTH anymore, cause they know they can't. They go to have a good time against other street cars.

Either way it still brings people down to race there mates or hold a grudge match taking in both sides to the story at least there are people attending the meets from both sides....

always the open minded one go andy

always mate.... got to take in both sides and listen... except for a the few that are just moronic idiots that have no right to thieve the oxygen that keeps our minds ticking over.....

The next BTH car should be one of those police Pulsars or even better, a Hilux kitted out like a paddy wagon! It would cover being competitive at a lower level than the current 'Heat' Commodore, and keeps in touch with the BTH theme of racing against a police car.

I think BTH is a great initiative, and am extremely glad to see that it has been thought out well enough that you guys have realised that your current car is too quick for most (I can definitely understand you wanting to be competitive though), and are going to try and correct this by having a second, slower car.

Good job guys!

I have a idea from what I have been told what the second car will be but the idea of a paddy wagon is awesome

He he... hell yeah! There's a few I know of wit the 3.8L Buick motors in them that are not to be laughed at. That would be something to see.

hilux for the win.

afterall, you don't need to go fast to win......

ill catch the heat 1 day.... muahahaha

Hey go easy...dont get too excited about the paddy wagon idea because that aint going to happen...

We have to be careful because of what we represent. Its easy for everyone to say 'we want to beat the police car' but again we have to think about it from a wider perspective...we dont want to create an impression that 'all' police cars are like that and easily beaten as then we will get some clown think that because they beat them at the track, they can try their chances on the street...lets keep it in perspective.

This is about participating in and enjoying your cars regardless of who you race or how fast your car is. We want to do another car because we recognise there is a gap there at present and we cant develop the Heat further until we fill that gap. But again, that takes money and more time and effort. The Heat is a PR tool as much as anything now and a wider group look to see what it is doing. (Incidently, no one in Perth complained that Tango 1 runs low 11's she even had NO2 fitted, no one in Mackay complained our car was too quick...no one complains that VicPols Operation Drag Right cars are too fast). And whats more, IF we can get all these other cars to Darwin for a big challenge, no one will want to see us as locals get waxed by the interstaters. So which way do we go?????

Drag racing is as much about bettering your own time than beating other people. We go out there to race against ourselves primarily and get a time that we can discuss with other people.

As for another car...it is in the planning stages and it will take time to do and I have no doubt, when we bring that out...if it ends up running low 13's (which is in street class) people will still complain.

I agree that the team members should be aiming to go as fast as they can, within reason, as in, you shouldn't be building a Top Fuel car or anything. But a car to run somewhere in the 13's to low 14's range would be an appropriate 'B' car.

That being said, I see no reason why a 2.7L Hilux couldn't get down to a time somewhere in the 13's. Get a blower or a turbo for it, combine that with a good diff ratio, nice suspension, and good tyres, and you'd be there. Hell, a supercharger kit is available for the 3RZ-FE, and there are a few people out there who have turbo'd their Hiluxes, so I don't see why a paddy wagon is an issue.

Good idea Mark. The average corolla/pulsar etc is sitting 16-19sec. Maybe something that runs mid 14-15sec will be more in line with the performance of some cars. That puts it in reach of older VN Commodores, stock Skylines, and any other 'performance' car that a first time car owner may have.

As you say though, it all takes time.

Now is now... Then is when?

i wanna build my own blue light taxi with a Lexus 4lt v8 and big turbo, a 4 link arse end and some fat slicks under some huge tubs...hows that 4 a paddy wagon!!!...

regarding those comment's mark,

a fast street car in our state is 10's okies 9's and there's 2 of them one has never done it again, and the other one is coming back bigger an fast than ever before

in the states that u just said, the average fast street car that get's raced/driven on the street every day is a 10/11 second car

no in darwin the average street car, is doing 14's
only a hand full are in the 12's

like i commented before, this was started toget the kids of the street and to stop drag racing, his is still happening every weekend, exactly the same as it was 3 years ago,

so maybe people need to rethink there pr tooling,

this is not a dig, as u know i support what the heat does 10 fold, but i'm older and understand while the average 16-20 doesn't

anyways just food for thought, please don't take this the wrong way!

thanks

id take offence to that if i could understand it

Paulie you're not nice.

i understand exactly what lars is saying. to prove it, i'll sumarise/translate

the first point was that there have only been 2 street cars (as in cars that run on the street - whether legal or not - they can be street driven) that have run into the 10s. the heat was saying the other police drag cars down south run in the 10s and no one complains. lars then pointed out that there are more street cars down south that run the really quick times.

so, in effect, the target audiences for the projects are different. southern police drag cars are targeting the street racers that have got 10 second cars. the heat is also targeting the street racers, but none of them up here have got the ultra quick cars. most have relatively ultra slow ones!!

pfffttt speak 4 ur car adam the camry was super quick. it had 3sgte

RELATIVELY - as in relational to the cars down south that do like sub 3second 1/4 mile.(that's vtec yO!!!11one for you)

Damned Vtec yO! I wish my blender was Vtec...

You can make your blender Vtak yO!. I have cans of Vtak on special. But they are not just cans of Vtak, its a whole Vtak system.

Its a great ab workout, its folds away and will fit right under your bed and will keep the vegies fresh for weeks on end.

Ahhh, God bless Vtak yO!

So do we get any extras if we pay by credit card in the next ten minutes Ken? Extra HeKTiK Vtak perhaps, at no extra charge?

Having been a critic of BTH for a fair while I thought I might take the opportunity to sink the boot in just one more time!!

1) BTH attracts people to the drags....... I don't think so. People go because it's Friday night. Always have.

2) Building another drag car??....... stupid. Why waste even more of the resources of your sponsors by simply doubling your exposure to the limited drag racing audience. Go circuit racing oor something and reach a whole new bunch of young enthusiasts.

3) I competed in my first 'street-meet' in 1986. Nothing has changed since. Not larger crowds at drag race meetings (actually less), not a reduction in numbers racing illegally, not a growth in 'hoons' turning to legal racing (there's actually less), not a reduction in the road toll. So with the tens of thousands of sponsors dollars and immeasurable hours the BTH team have put in they have achieved what????...............NOTHING!! Except make a few new friends perhaps as well as force the enthusiast community to self-censor on web sites through fear of police persecution.

Sorry guy's. I said it a couple of years ago and I will repeat. You may have the best of intentions but the sponsors dollars are being wasted. The money would have a much more immediate and accountable effect if it were directed toward subsidising Advanced Driver Training courses for young drivers.... for example.

Now there's an idea!!

I will agree with the ADT courses being made more accessible to young drivers. The benefits gained are well worth it, even if it's simple things like knowing how to react in a certain situation, as opposed to freezing with their foot on throttle. (I did this once when i was very young, and had to replace a friend's car as a result) But I also think that BTH is a good PR tool, if nothing else.

Actually the maths on that is a bit of eye opener.

Lets say the guys sold The Heat for a measly 20 grand for example.... ADT courses are around the $300 mark so if this 20k was used to subsidise drivers 50% of the cost of the course this would result in 133 young drivers having the opportunity to develop potentially life-saving skills and awareness.

Now the chances of at least one of those drivers winding up in a life threatening situation during their lifetime and needing to utilise their aquired skills is fairly high I guess so the value of the BHT 50% contribution would then be immeasureable. What is a life worth???

Alternately, either myself or anyone else could get of our arses and go and find 20k in corporate sponsorship and do the same thing. Although with respect to the BTH efforts..... 20k is not that easy to find.

Just a thought from left field.

Good to see you started a new thread Hyper. The purpose of this thread as MAD put it was to go back to the basics of BTH, to help get street racing off the street. Selling the car isn't going to be an option as that then closes down the whole program.

I think ADT would be a good idea too, but it means someone has to sponsor it. Members are being provided benefits now (half price entry to street meets), and benefits will continue to grow over time, if businesses and locals support it.

People should pay for it themselves if they want the ADT course. Means they actually really want to know how to control their car if something was to go wrong, not just to get a few tips on how to powerslide and drive on wet roads if they 'accidently' loose traction.

If you guys want to do it, get a group together and do it. There might be a discount on group bookings? BTH shouldn't have to provide everything.

Nothing wrong with saving up and paying for it yourselves. When you think about how much you guys spend on grog and smokes and petrol, it isn't really very much.

It's good to see someone with sensible ideas and someone that has actually thought it through and realises the cost problems but I seriously think selling the HEAT is a bit over the top. Surely the HEATS objective isn't just to get people off the streets. It's a concept that has many advantages, for one it has surley bought the police and the general motoring public closer together.

As I said Hyper I like your ideas but ideas are no good if they stay just that. Maybe time to put your money where your mouth is?

Philthy, all good points.

With regards to money and mouth I should make you aware that I was the instigator of a very succesful junior driver program and remain involved after five years of this program running.

I've spent countless hours of my own time training young people. Ever done a hundred laps of Hidden Valley in 32 degree heat with a new in-experienced driver at the wheel every five laps?????

Dude..... I HAVE DONE MY BIT.

Oh great... so it's you we have to thank for the gemmi's.....

Only half joking though, not a bad class at all, but I think they should limit the laps somewhat as they are quite slow.

lmao... not with someone else driving them... doing what a 'quick' car does at 140km/h but doing it at 80 is teh win... GEMMI's Are w1n. ask tommy chop chop and Cozza.

Sorry mate wasn't a personal dig at you. I undrstand that there are people that do put in a lot of time and effort for things such as this. It was more a general dig. All I seem to hear is "why don't THEY give us this or that" All I'm trying to say is that there is no magical THEY. If people want things to happen it's up to them to make it happen.

What ever your feelings are about the HEAT you have to admit that Mark and his team are doing something. Remember they don't get paid and I'm sure it's not just a case of them rocking up once a month on a Friday. I'm sure they work very hard at other times too. Also I don't think the principle of the HEAT is just to get people off the road. So what if it thrashes all comers. It's a central focus point that helps to bring everyone together in the first place. It's also, in my opinion, a fantastic PR / Recruitment tool for the NT police.

Speaking as a police officer I find it very frustrating when you try to break down barriers and get involved in things that are good for the community only to have it thrown back at you because it's not what some particular people like.

Nah, that's cool.

BTH does a good job for the street meets "Better if they cut the bloody grass on the hill" i dont know how it is down at the pits but P platers in there slower class cars even drivers on there opens would be pretty nervous too drag for there first time, spectators watching, ppl bagging you out, faster cars around ect... its just human if you see one racing at the street meet say hi and surport them for not racing on the streets and help them out if they need, alot of people think you need a 14 sec or under car to race but as alot of members have mentioned this is not the case you dont need to throw money around to make people go if you make them fill its a place of belonging treat them with respect you'll be surprised how far it will go. This is what sevral people have told me.

The grass isn't BTH's responsibility. Its meant to by done by the maintaining body, Territory Motorsports Board but they only slash rather than mow so King Cobra have arranged their own mowing so it should be all good for Saturday nights Open Meet

Think this tread has sort of gone way left field regarding what it was started!

It's frank and it's regarding BTH.

speak for ur self champ...